Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Will you be downloading the NHS or any of the other "contract tracing" apps?

88 replies

Minecrafting · 07/05/2020 11:33

YANBU - Yes I will be downloading one of the contract tracing apps.
YABU - No I will not be downloading one of the contract tracing apps.

OP posts:
IndecentFeminist · 07/05/2020 11:56

We are trialling it him the IoW at the moment. I've got no issues with it per se, but am not really in circulation anyway.

thecatsthecats · 07/05/2020 11:57

Slightly tangential to the question, but a question came up recently about 'would you give your husband an alibi if he were home alone and accused of a crime' that made me think.

If my husband alleged he were at home alone, I'd expect there to be significant data supporting that. He'd be browsing his phone, asking Alexa questions, playing online games etc. I'd be seriously concerned if he couldn't prove that he was there using a combination of that data. Even more so if there were data suggesting he were elsewhere, or an absence of data altogether.

TL;DR - we already have MASSIVE data footprints. This one might actually be good for something - and as what's collected poses no threat to me personally even if leaked, I'd be happy to supply it.

LilacTree1 · 07/05/2020 11:57

Serendipity I meant pre-technology, sorry, that wasn't clear.

so if a wife got it, her husband would be quarantined too.

PrivacyOne · 07/05/2020 11:58

I’ve downloaded it this morning as on IW, but reluctantly. I don’t like the idea of Cummings’ mates being in on this at all. However, I reckoned there is no choice so to just do it. I have comforted myself with the fact there are obviously lots of people who have zero trust in the government and I hope this reluctance across the population flags this issue up. This whole thing has been a shit show Angry and I’m upset that so many have died Sad.

LilacTree1 · 07/05/2020 11:59

Indecent are you trialling the NHSX app?

Springersrock · 07/05/2020 12:00

@LilacTree1 - yes, we’ve got the NHSX ap

LilacTree1 · 07/05/2020 12:01

Springers I read on here that you have to upload a video of yourself?

Cornettoninja · 07/05/2020 12:01

I would/will.

My biggest concern is the requirements irl though. If the idea is to alert you to having enough contact with someone to need to isolate/test then how is this enforced? I’m more than happy to do either - my manager on the other hand... I’ve been at work with people who really shouldn’t be there under the current 14 day isolation rule and have been ‘encouraged’ to find alternative childcare and get their arse in...

Apparently my NHS manager doesn’t see the reasoning behind all these requirements Hmm

LilacTree1 · 07/05/2020 12:01

I also heard on the BBC you have to have your phone unlocked all the time?!

Springersrock · 07/05/2020 12:01

@LilacTree1. Nope. First 4 digits of your postcode. Nothing else

Springersrock · 07/05/2020 12:02

More information here www.countypress.co.uk/news/18430168.puzzled-nhs-app-questions-answered/

PotholeParadise · 07/05/2020 12:07

It also records the make of your phone, springersrock.

MereDintofPandiculation · 07/05/2020 12:07

Will I need to pay for data though for it to work? No, I believe it works via bluetooth not via internet.

IndecentFeminist · 07/05/2020 12:07

There is an issue with some iPhones I think that they don't wake up unless they are unlocked I think. I'm on Android so it should work fine for me

No videos or anything, just first bit of postcode. No access permissions or anything

Mummoomoocow · 07/05/2020 12:08

Given that the government has repeatedly used our data against us, no I will not touch any app they recommend. I will not use Facebook for that very purpose.

PotholeParadise · 07/05/2020 12:10

Other points of view:

Levy repeatedly tried to square this circle, leading to some ludicrous assertions. He stated boldly in bullet points that the app "doesn't have any personal information about you, it doesn't collect your location and the design works hard to ensure that you can't work out who has become symptomatic" and that "it holds only anonymous data and communicates out to other NHS systems through privacy preserving gateways."

But what is literally the first thing the app does when you install and open it? It asks for your postcode, and logs the exact make of your phone.

Levy explained "a big random number" is also generated, which is tied to the copy of the contact-tracing app on your phone. This 128-bit ID is what the app on one phone exchanges via Bluetooth with itself on a nearby phone when they come in range. This exchange includes when exactly the IDs were encountered, how long the phones were near each other, and the signal strength, allowing the distance apart to be calculated. This is the data that is ultimately shared with the NHS, when you choose to.

The exchanged data is also encrypted in such a way that the NHS can decrypt it but not other users. We understand these ID numbers are generated server-side, and are people's unique fingerprints in the centralized system.

Levy also noted that "currently" only "the first part of your postcode" is taken and stored "for NHS resource planning, mainly." He goes on: "Nothing identifying and no personal data are taken from the device or the user."

Does it matter?

Presumably the goal with this kind of explanation is to comfort the vast majority of UK folk who don't understand how the entire internet economy works by connecting vast databases together.

So long as you can rely on one piece of per-user data – like a "big random number" – everything else can be connected. And if you also have a postcode, that becomes 100 times easier. Ever heard of Facebook? It's worth billions solely because it is able to connect the dots between datasets.

Indeed, it may be possible to work outwho is associating with whomfrom the app's ID numbers. Bear in mind, the Apple-Google decentralized approach produces new ID numbers for each user each day, thwarting identification, especially with the ban on location tracking.

Levy also glossed over the fact that as soon as someone agrees to share their information with UK government – by claiming to feel unwell and hitting a big green button – 28 days of data from the app is given to a central server from where it can never be recovered. That data, featuring all the unique IDs you've encountered in that period and when and how far apart you were, becomes the property of NCSC – as its chief exec Matthew Gould wasforced to admit to MPson Monday. Gould also admitted that the data will not be deleted, UK citizens will not have the right to demand it is deleted, and it can or will be used for "research" in future.

And then there's the not insignificant issue that the entire approach may break privacy and human-rights laws, anyway, as one legal firm hasadvised:

A de-centralised smartphone contact tracing system – the type contemplated ... by governments across Europe and also Apple and Google – would be likely to comply with both human rights and data protection laws. In contrast, a centralised smartphone system – which is the current UK Government proposal – is a greater interference with fundamental rights and would require significantly greater justification to be lawful. That justification has not yet been forthcoming.

Oh yes, and "the UK Government's announcements for sharing health data between the private and public sector appear to be flawed. This means such data sharing is potentially not in compliance with legal requirements."

wrongsideofhistorymyarse · 07/05/2020 12:21

Not a chance

Hotcuppatea · 07/05/2020 12:23

No, but not because of datasharing concerns, but because my old phone is always running out of storage and battery.

ThrowingGoodAfterBad · 07/05/2020 12:24

Not unless I'm forced to to by work, which is entirely likely. There are known and very avoidable privacy issues with everything the British government does independent of Europe: this app is the same.

There has been a thread on this already, and the many inane comments about how people with such genuine concerns should just give the government access to everything because 'nothing to hide', followed the hysterical ones about refusal = murderer, tightened my stance on this. Thanks. Hope everyone such enjoys the effect of living in systems run by your emotional rubbish over careful rationality.

ChickenNuggetsChipsAndBeans · 07/05/2020 12:36

I will. I give away my personal information to a whole load of companies, via apps, with a lot less accountability than the UK government.

I also think contact tracing and testing is part of the solution.

It is the age old question, individual rights vs the greater good.

BroomstickOfLove · 07/05/2020 12:38

I'll see how the trial goes, but I'm not convinced it will work. I work in a shop, and won't be able to carry my phone with me while I'm working, and that's pretty much the main situation in which I'm likely to get infected or infect others. And I really don't want to give behavioural data to people with such a bad record of unscrupulous data use. And I'm worried that it's just not good enough, especially for iphones, and will lead to unwarranted confidence which will cause the virus to spread further and more quickly.

But if the trial is resounding success, then I'll probably put immediate public heath above future unethical use of data and use it, resentfully.

glastogal · 07/05/2020 12:40

No, because they aren't going to work in the proposed format. It's just another massive waste of money/throwing money to the cabinet's mates kind of endeavour. Count me out.

Miriel · 07/05/2020 12:41

No. I value my privacy and don't trust the government with this data. The fact that they've created their own centralised app instead of going with the Google/Apple decentralised one is a massive red flag.

OpthalmosVerde · 07/05/2020 12:42

Nope as I don’t see the point, I’m as sure as I can be that I’ve had it (no testing available to me when I had it). If I have a negative antibody test (also not available yet!) then I would. But honestly I don’t see the point in this now; the virus is already widespread within the community, at least here in London. Track & trace, along with more widely available testing, would have made sense back at the end of Feb/beginning of March. 2 months down the line it seems very much stable door/horse bolted to me.