AIBU: If They Make Children Wear Masks, I'm Homeschooling

[DamnYankee]

Social distancing at our schools is not possible.
I would love to get back to work in the fall as a public school teacher. However, we are being asked/encouraged (over the age of 3) to wear masks in public places.
My DD (11) panics when she has to wear a mask for more than 20 minutes. I get it. I get a headache after 30 minutes.
I understand this is projecting, but just keeps going through my mind...
Ugh.

Has it been proven what the effects are yet?
I know that some countries where them to not spread disease, not to stop catching it.

If masks are wet they are of no use. Medics change their masks regularly and dispose of them properly and carefully. Putting them on and off is of no use and certainly children cant do it in a safe manner. Hand washing is the way. Time spent before, during and after lessons would be better.

This ^

Can you link to the research that says wearing masks in school with prevent deaths

No I can't but it's obvious surely? If someone has virus particles in their body and coughs or sneezes, the mask contains the particles rather than them being projected into the air for someone else to breathe in

You would like to think so but this is incorrect when it's a wet homemade cloth mask. All the research I have seen indicates that these cause more problems than protect.

I know the scientist on the Health select committee said there could be a small positive benefit in using them but I think in his mind that was using them correctly and disposed of or cleaned correctly which they won't be. Which will negate all the small positive.

And the male politician or scientist ( I forget who ) who suggested using a scarf instead Do they never do the laundry ? Do they not realise that washing a scarf at 60' degrees would destroy it? So that wet warm scarf would be a germ breeding party if not thrown away immediately?

@LastTrainEast other countries appear to be introducing social distancing in schools together with masks. Do they just have more compliant children than we do?

All the research I've seen says wet masks are useless too. And they get wet pretty quickly. I'd need at least 5 per day when teaching. Multiply that by staff and student numbers and soon it's a crazy number and a ridiculous amount of waste for very little potential benefit.

Handwashing and keeping hands away from the face are key.

Have other countries really got students wearing masks to school? Or is this media hype.

That’s fine, everyone has to do what’s right for them

@Drivingdownthe101. I don’t mean to blow my own trumpet here but we are in the midst of a crisis in teaching without this virus crap going on as well. Schools are full of inexperienced staff as it is. I am a shortage area subject teacher with excellent results and huge experience in pastoral care. You can’t afford to lose me. I am not the only teacher I know who feels strongly enough to say that unless we are offered minimal protection, we will not be hanging around. I will find something else to do.

I think we have to accept that there can be no real lockdown or social distancing in schools

Sod the adults in school, eh? They’re expendable. Maybe parents need to take some responsibility for parenting and drumming into their children that they must follow social distancing rules for the greater good? Perhaps the Law could back us up and prosecute all those teenage idiots who will go about coughing on others, including staff, deliberately? Attempted murder might just about cover it. Maybe we should look at prosecutions for parents who send in their little darlings with a cough, headache and temperature because that is going to be enough to close a school for a fortnight.

It is clear that being in school is going to carry an element of risk that perhaps doesn’t exist in other work places but ffs, is it going to take teachers and their families dying en masse for people to recognise that we need to work something out?m

@Howaboutanewname

I'm a teacher too but will seriously consider leaving if we DO have to wear masks. Same as you in terms of v shortage subject and experienced so "can't afford" to be lost. I have hearing loss and wouldn't be able to communicate with anyone. I'm also not sure how much children and teens will wear them safely and effectively.

This shows how divisive the masks issue is.

OP I wouldn’t blame you at all

Howaboutanewname I am on your side, I believe that teachers have the right to feel safe. I also believe that parents have the right to do what’s best for their children. I am Chair of Governors at our local primary and we have absolutely got teachers best interests at heart.
But if the government doesn’t mandate masks in schools and you feel strongly that you won’t work without them then what can you do except resign? Is there any other option? Of course you’ll be a massive loss to teaching but it’s your decision. You have to keep yourself safe.

And same for Hercwasonaroll, you need to do wish you feel comfortable with. Nothing about this situation is ideal for anyone.

what

I won't consider leaving if we have to wear masks in school, because I need my salary, but I will not be able to do my job if wearing masks is mandatory. I cannot hear. If I can't lip read I cannot understand. I won't be able to teach. I can struggle already if the classroom is noisy and I have a child who is soft-spoken, or who mumbles, or if they're sat at a distance from me.

Never mind the number if hearing impaired pupils too. Are we saying everyone with a hearing impairment should stay at home? HI pupils are already at a disadvantage and you'd be removing perfectly healthy teachers from the workforce.

@Hercwasonaroll. I would be happy to go with the science on masks. I can see why we will struggle in schools with them and why potentially they could be more problematic than they are useful.

My concern is that there will be nothing at all for school staff and we will be expected to run the gauntlet with 30 kids squashed in a room meant for 25 without access to cleaning products as basic as soap. I don’t see how this won’t lead directly to deaths and indirectly to deaths in the homes of both staff and students. Nothing we have seen so far suggests that any school is going to be a safe place to be. Quite the contrary. I would welcome a discussion about PPE (including face masks), funding being very much available for soap. A relaxation of exam/SATs expectations whilst we spend more time than usual ensuring children are washing hands several times a day might help. Laws would help - because in secondary there are some truly awful children who will think nothing about putting others at risk. And when staff do die as a result of covid contracted in the work place, there are going to be lawsuits.

As I say, I accept a level of risk is inevitable but so far I have seen no evidence that as a staff group, there is any concern about our safety. We number in the hundreds of thousands and we deserve better.

They’re surviving in much warmer climates with masks so I’d say YABU.

RandomSelection

I would add (for primary school KS1 children at least):

11. Children would be saying to their friends, "Oh I like your mask! Can I try it on? I'll let you try mine."

12. Endless complaints of "Miss! He keeps undoing my mask and making it fall off!" and "Miss! She keeps taking her mask off! Look!"

Shall we stop wearing bicycle helmets too cos they're not all that nice to wear either

I don't see mask-wearing being required at school - maybe on the way to/from school if it's required for public transport - but not during the school day.

But if it IS required, I really don't see parents deciding to home-school instead because of it. They would need to de-register - you can't be registered for a school but not using the place. I really can't see many parents doing that.
Once they've de-registered (as far as I know) the LA is not under any obligation to find another place for them if they change their mind. Once you've turned down your place, that's it.
There will also be an increased demand for school places as people can no longer afford to send their children to private schools due to job losses etc.

If you look at the stats masks aren’t required as long as no signicatnt underlying health conditions or in contact with anyone over 65.

The number of people who have died below this age who are healthy is absolutely tiny. Between 80 and 90 percent of deaths are over 65s.

Less than a thousand people below 55 have died, and most of them had underlying health conditions. Approx 300 below 45. Same again on the health conditions.

It would appear from the statistics masks etc are simply not required as there is a miniscule risk to healthy people below a given age range.

Bluntness,

Unfortunately, the age profile of the staff in my school - when we consider ALL the staff needed, including TAs, lunchtime assistants, cleaners, senior leadership team, office staff etc - means that there are a large number of people over 55, and several over 65. There are also a number below 55 who fit into the vulnerable groups - ie those who have underlying health conditions.

I think you have a picture of a school staffed mainly by young adults ..

@Bluntness100

But not all staff in schools are low risk? Anyone over 50 has an increased risk? Some of us have asthma? Are obese? Have diabetes? Have a cancer diagnosis? Some of us have people at home who are high risk or in the shielded category. We will be expected to work. How will it work when children with active symptoms are sent into school? What will happen to children who refuse to follow rules to socially distance? Who cough on others deliberately? What will happen if we can’t get hold of soap? Will I be expected to clean between classes? Who will provide cleaning materials? What would constitute a deep clean? Where will the funding for all these extra deep cleans come from? Where is funding for supply staff coming from when a child with active symptoms ha sheen wandering about school for the last week?

It is not enough to say you are unlikely to be affected so get on with it. Some of us will be affected. Some risk is inevitable - same as leaving the house, getting in a car, walking across a road - but the close proximity we work within with so many people is a breeding ground for germs under normal circumstances. These are not normal circumstances.

@Howaboutanewname

I completely agree that there needs to be a discussion about appropriate PPE and regulations for handwashing etc in schools. Guidance needs to come from central government and not be liable for any wanton interpretation by over zealous or foolhardy SLT/HTs to interpret.

Agree re laws at secondary. There are some vile students (a very small minority) out there who would cough etc in faces.

I do think that (with the exception of labs and studios) it might help in secondary schools if the children stayed put and the teachers moved. At least that way you limit the number of different people in each classroom.

@2beesornot2beesthatisthehoney if you make a homemade mask then make it out of something thicker than one layer of thin cotton, and make sure it can be washed at 60 degrees. It is better to wear this than nothing. It is better obviously to have a medical grade mask. The evidence from Czechia indicates that cloth masks are significantly better than no mask. Have a look at the video I linked upthread - their deaths per 1M are 24 whereas UK over 400

I know pupils would have to move around at points, but it would avoid large numbers of classes queuing in close proximity outside classrooms.

@2beesornot2beesthatisthehoney also advice from leading asian scientists is that masks worn by everyone will help stop the spread of the virus. They have credentials and experience and advice around the world has shifted as a result of their input.

There was a meme on Facebook that I now can’t find in favour of masks. Basically it went if we all wander around with no trousers, when someone pees, we all get wet. If you pee yourself with trousers on, less people get wet around you and if everyone is wearing trousers, very few of us get wet with anything other than our own pee! It works for me!