To despair about the state of the Labour Party ?

[Bertoldbrecht]

I’m a long time labour/ remain voter in the north west. Never joined the party although considered doing so to get a vote in the leadership election. Liked Corbyn initially on a superficial basis but knew realistically he hadn’t got a cat in hells chance of winning an election. Too much baggage to endear him to the average voter and the media accusations of him being ‘hard left’ or a ‘stalinist’ were the final nail in the coffin whether they were true or not.
I was relieved that Keir Starmer won. I suspect that if his leadership team get the policies right he will appeal to wavering voters as did Tony Blair but sadly the vitriol directed at him by some members is unbelievable. So much hostility and hatred because he’s not outright attacking the tories for their handling of the covid crisis. I think he’s showing pragmatism and reading the mood of the country correctly, it feels like we’ve got an adult in charge of the opposition rather than a student rabble rouser whose principles were well intentioned but unrealistic. I just don’t get why some members can’t just unify behind him and get on with challenging the Tory government rather than undermining a leader that the major of the party have selected by a pretty large majority.
So do most labour members/ supporters dislike him or is it just a vocal minority who can’t get over Corbyn ?

I dont really know why you and others are trying to present Starmer as from the right, Frozenfan. Hes clearly been standard british centre left for his whole career.

He's not loudly critical, which is right, because he's understood that now isn't the time for that.

But if he's not careful he'll drift, make himself in-noticeable, and that won't go down with / won't make him voteable with the public either.

I am surprised at some of the members of his shadow cabinet who I don't consider to actually be labour supporters, they joined labour to get a seat.

Who? I am curious.

When you look back Labour wasn't in power much - happy to be corrected.
When I was young it was Harold Wilson, Jim Callaghan. Then T Blair in the 2000s.
Not much really.
The way I remember the time of HW was huge strikes, rubbish on the streets, shortages due to dock strikes. The way I remember T Blair is the Iraq War. I confess I am biased but they don't have a great record. There doesn't seem to be golden time of Labour in power.

@Frozenfan2019 you have explained it perfectly. I am sick of being described as 'hard left'.

I want the option to vote for a political party that represents my political views the majority of the time. Surely this is what everyone wants, or all Labour supporters would have accepted Corbyn and more socialist policies.

I certainly feel no obligation to continue voting for and funding a party that does not represent me and should not be criticised for that or voicing my concerns about the direction the party is taking.

The state of ...who?

Nope, sorry doesnt really ring a bell anymore!

Those momentum knobheads make a lot of noise now and then as they are consigned to a grumpy little corner - the one you avoid when you enter a pub (remember pubs? ). Anyway, as with Millitant in the 80s, those dicks have had their chance and they fucking blew it for Labour for a long.
We'll see if f Starmer can restart Labour's fortunes at the polls but Corbyn nearly flushed them away forever.

The same problem comes round and round every few decades. If it's not fixed we'll never/hardly every get another Labour government.

When I joined about 7 years ago it felt like a more or less comfortable broad church, but it's perfectly clear that the church was too broad to stick together for long.

We need some kind of party further to the left, that appeals to those who periodically enter the party but aren't interested in compromise in order to gain power. Which let's not forget, is the only way to actually help people.

@LightenUpSummer

I think you make a valid point. There is a strong streak in Labour Party membership that sees protest and supporting every wild and downtrodden cause as noble and that eventually the British public will recognise that they are right and elect them....the problem, and seen even after the latest defeat is that they STILL did not get it. Underlines the challenge Starmer has. From the data I saw, for Labour to get anywhere near a majority will require overturning seats at a rate that has never ever happened so the reality is they are looking at being out of govt for 10 years and even then reliant on the SNP for support

My despair is with the general parlous state of our 'politics' all round.

There's no escaping that the Conservative Election campaign (like the Vote Leave campaign) was based on lies and misdirection. And voters chose to believe the lies about Labour (antisemitism, crashing the global economy in 2008 etc) and ignore the truths about the Conservative (PM's racism and homophobia, a Chancellor who actually was involved in crashing the global economy in 2008 etc. etc.) is very concerning in my view

A political defeat is much easier to swallow when the result is the outcome of campaigns offering alternative policies and visions of the way forward, than when it is based on media spin, evasion, lies and false promises (40 hospitals anyone; social care reform ready to go etc etc.).

Corbyn's Labour attracted more votes than Blair in 2005, Brown in 2010, Milliband in 2015. If we'd only counted the votes of those under 40 Labour would have had the 80-seat majority.

So,m there would appear to be a future for 'left-leaning' ideas, and after the defeat under Corbyn it is clearly time for fresh faces, and Starmer got solid support from across the Party. The big question is how do you counter the wrecking-ball tactics of this current generation of Conservatives - who will say and promise anything to get elected.

cooliebrown my answer to your question is it's very hard to counter those lies, almost impossible, and I fear that we'll have to wait for the same thing to happen as in the 90s - things had to get so obviously bad that the swing voters took the risk of jumping ship and voting Labour.

What I've learned is we're a very conservative country by nature, and it takes a leap of faith to go Labour, people have to really feel "sod it, nothing to lose, might as well give them a try".

And even then, it only works if we appear to be offering the safest of safe hands - an apparent "Tory-lite".

I think Keir could offer that, but we've got an awful lot of reputation repairing to do before even he stands a chance.

Btw I take no pleasure in thinking that - I, and loads of my "moderate" friends are very socialist and quite radical underneath, but we think that you can't show that and win an election!

I have lots in common with those further to the left of me (though I more than once got told to fuck off and join the Tories), it's just a difference of opinion on how to win elections and how important winning them is.

I never stopped fighting hard for Labour votes throughout Corbyn. I think the left of the party don't always understand the loyalty of those more to the centre.

There are lots of little parties further to the left. Those dickheads are welcome there if they can't accept a broad church Labour Party.

The way I remember the time of HW was huge strikes, rubbish on the streets, shortages due to dock strikes. The way I remember T Blair is the Iraq War. I confess I am biased but they don't have a great record. There doesn't seem to be golden time of Labour in power.

The way we all remember is curated by the media ...

bellinisurge yes I agree but none of those little parties seem to have enough sticking power - people keep coming back to infiltrate Labour.

After the vote of no confidence in JC I thought the solution would be for Momentum to set up as their own separate party. I still think that might've made everyone happy. But I guess they wanted the resources etc of Labour for themselves.

I'm afraid Labour is back worshipping at the altar of neo liberalism. It'll appeal to people who do well out of the capitalist system whilst realising this system also creates inequalities. 'Crazy' socialist ideas like nationalised railways are unthinkable because it upsets the comfortable status quo. It probably also explains the silence around the Tories magic money tree and tax payer ("socialist") bailout at present.

Its a futile political standpoint that gave the UK austerity under the coalition and the pathetic resistence to Brexit (Change UK). The apathy towards Labour in December led to the disired outcome of Corbyn be outed, What wasn't factored was the Tory sloganeers would hit a wall as soon as a crisis hit (see COVID19). Labours centrists of course should be realitively protected from the economic and social fallout of COVID whist capitalists 'losers' are once again voiceless.

Corbyn was unelectable. From the minute he was the leadership contest we knew that was labour out of power for the foreseeable future. He wasn’t a leader. It is as simple as that. He wasn’t smart enough or charismatic enough. In all his years as an MP he’d never even made it to the front benches. I’m pleased Starmer has got it. It’s one thing to cling to ideology, but labour is a broad church and Corbyn didn’t have a clue how to deal with that.

Voter's don't forget his shambolic contribution to the general election. His stance on Brexit was very unpopular. He is now less popular than Corbyn according to recent polls. The public mood according to latest poll is that Tory's now on high of 60 per cent in polls. That is probably because Sunak is paying over half of countries wages. Once lockdown over and Tory's increase tax at next budget to claw money back and remember £1k increase in U C is only for one year. Stalker needs to resist urge to criticise Tory's when perceived as handling crisis well and pounce when UC is lowered and taxes increased for all. The thing is can he be patient, because ATM he is coming across as whining about everything.

Corbyn has a very loud fanbase. Besides I thought he was the reason why Labour lost votes, given how many people on here and elsewhere claimed they usually voted Labour but would vote Tory or Lib Dem because they hated Corbyn.

Just remembered, at next GE Labour will suffer because of boundary changes.

Starmer promises to increase taxes for the top 5% of earners, reverse corporation tax, abolish universal credit welfare reforms, scrap university tuition fees and renationalise key industries including rail, mail water and energy.

I wouldn't consider those policies "worshiping at the alter of neo liberalism".

Oh G-d with the woke bullshit. 'Woke' was originally a term invented by black American activists to mean 'socially conscious', but now the likes of Mumsnet have taken it to mean 'anyone who doesn't vote Conservative and/or think trans women are men in drag'. Someone on here called me woke because I thought G-d Save the Queen was a dirge. It's such a stupid meaningless term and I'm tired of it.

I also got told hating Jews was 'woke'. Really? Really?

I wouldn't consider those policies "worshiping at the alter of neo liberalism"

A few crumbs thrown to those that value the traditions of the Labour party.

GhostofFrankGrimes wouldn't call renationalisation a crumb. Can you share some of his neoliberalism values, if you make a statement you need to back it up.

I am surprised at some of the members of his shadow cabinet who I don't consider to actually be labour supporters, they joined labour to get a seat.

Anyone who joined in recent decades ‘just to get a seat’ presumably joined up when the party was electorally popular i.e. under Labour’s Tony Blair, the Labour leader who won three consecutive general elections for Labour.

You may not share their politics but they are definitely Labour supporters, members and MPs. Labour has always been a broad church. Starmer’s hardest task will be bringing it together.