Rishi Sunak no more bailouts

[Elpresidente29]

He said government cannot go on like this...

You make it a choice between feeding your family/losing your home or observing the lockdown, lockdown loses every single time.

This is it, in a nutshell.

I second all that SHOOTSFRUITSAND LEAVES said....

I doubt they will be cutting the state pension amount, and there may be some redundancies in the public sector, which is nothing new. So what do you envisage happening?

Exactly! There is no way they would give actual pay cuts and reduce the state pension. That would be political suicide.

It's borrowed money that will be re-paid by current university students

What makes you think it will be repaid? Prior to Covid, the UK was running a 100 billion benefit system which effectively subsidised basement wages and the companies paying them. This was after 'austerity' and a decade of Conservative government. What is the UK's current debt?

Exactly! There is no way they would give actual pay cuts and reduce the state pension. That would be political suicide.

I don’t think the reality of some of the more pessimistic projections has really hit people yet. 35% reduction in GDP under some estimates.

That’s twice as bad as the Great Depression.

@LaurieMarlow surely public sector paycuts = less tax!

@sunflowery
If public sector workers were taxed at 90 percent? They would still be a drain on the treasury.

I know at least 2 suppliers and 1 client who furloughed their staff as soon as this was announced, to protect their profits/money in bank. No thought to paying their bills or topping up the salaries.

Their actions will be noted when we get back to normal. Likewise, there are a number of public companies I won't be buying from again, who jumped at the chance to use taxpayers money quicker than rats up drainpipes.

If the debt gets high enough you can't make the repayments from your income and you stop being being loaned money. It has happened with many countries. We are not exempt.

I'd say they’ll have to consider both of those, yes. Depending on the length and severity of the crisis

No they wont cut state pension, they may not implement any rises for a few years which technically will be a loss with inflation, but they will not reduce the actual amount people receive. There is already a critical shortage of some sectors such as nurses, teachers etc- they will not cut their wages. The civil service is fairly streamlined now compared to what it was, the terms and conditions have been eroded away over the years anyway and some will be needed more than ever. Are you suggesting that they will introduce pay cuts and people will just accept it? Based on logic neither of these will happen, why do you think they will?

Exactly! There is no way they would give actual pay cuts and reduce the state pension. That would be political suicide.

Bear in mind that the vast majority of public sector workers have received pay rises well below the rate of inflation for many years, so they've already taken pay cuts in real terms. There's quite a few public sector workers who are on minimum wage or not far above that as it is, so their wages can't really be cut. and if they were, then those with families would end up having to claim tax credits - or more in tax credits, many already are claiming.

I agree with this post. Some have taken advantage and so less money to go around for the genuine.
"wink1970 Tue 05-May-20 11:54:35
I know at least 2 suppliers and 1 client who furloughed their staff as soon as this was announced, to protect their profits/money in bank. No thought to paying their bills or topping up the salaries.
Their actions will be noted when we get back to normal. Likewise, there are a number of public companies I won't be buying from again, who jumped at the chance to use taxpayers money quicker than rats up drainpipe"

I think they need to reduce furlough. Too many companies using it just to save cash on salaries when they could be open and have people working, there are also some people who don’t want to work and are happy to be furloughed. Once it drops to 50% of salary people might be less happy to remain on furlough. Maybe it could be retained at some level for staff whose workplace remains mandated to close.

@LilacTree1 yeah let's just let the old people die instead after all it's not like they have contributed anything over the years is it?

And 60+ is not old ffs .

I think the package was extremely generous under the circumstances. How this is all going to be paid for is anybody's guess.

If the debt gets high enough you can't make the repayments from your income and you stop being being loaned money. It has happened with many countries. We are not exempt

This is true. But as I have already said, the UK's debt is regarded as a fictional number. How else to explain that after a decade of 'austerity' the government is paying 100 billion in benefits? The current situation is not sustainable. Neither was the previous one. But nothing will change. It will continue straight on into bankruptcy.

All I can think while reading this, especially Bovary's posts on the benefits bill, is: who has all the money??

The UK economy has been doing well for years. Where have all these profits and revenues gone? Not to the average or low-paid worker.

Instead of letting people lose their homes or the economy go bust, can we not tax those parts of the corporate sector that have been immensely profitable and not paying a fair share of wages or taxes for years?

*I think young people must be furious

Their future ruined to save a majority 80+, some 60+

We used to say freely on the Elderly Parents board that people live too long now*

Fuck me that's brutal. Shall we just euthanase them all now and lift lockdown? Do you think the problem will go away then?

I can’t be bothered to trawl back and see who it was that said public sector workers won’t be affected. Seriously??? You didn’t notice the austerity measures from the last recession affecting public services at all?? Lack of resources, job freezes, changes to pensions, caused Nurses and Drs to leave the NHS in droves (the same was happening in actual care). We ended up short of 40 thousand nurses. Pay freezes and caps didn’t help. Remember Boris and Co cheering when they won the vote to deny nurses a pay rise? So you think public sector workers won’t have to pay the price for the massive debt the Country will now be in? Believe me, the Government might be applauding the NHS now but they will soon put the boot in and kick them back down.

Viv “I think the package was extremely generous under the circumstances. How this is all going to be paid for is anybody's guess.”

The government were stupid enough to institute a draconian lockdown so to some extent they had to compensate people. But in reality, most of us will just pay more in tax or lose our jobs.

I’ve been to,d I can apply for Universal Credit on top of my self employment application- no idea if that’s true or not. But you know - I could have just stayed in work, mega pluses all round.

DP is a chef in the leisure industry. His place of work is closed, as per government advice

Furlough pay allows his employer to keep employees on their books and "hit the ground running" when they can reopen again. The financial implications of all of said employer's employees suddenly being out of work are greater than the cost of furlough.

Kortnee I don’t know. My late father was HCP and used to say all the time “we dint know how to cope or pay for people living this long”. Lucky bastard didn’t make it to 80 and didn’t have to see this horror.

He’d be turning in his grave if he had one.

And telling people over 70 they shouldnt go out - fuck off!

Lockdown isn’t designed to save anyone really.

And the services that are gone....I’ve had one friend who can’t get help for his father with dementia, who has turned violent since lockdown, and the usual set of carers left because they can’t cope.

Nobody knows how to cope, but lockdown doesn’t help anyone.

You don't need to actually cut state pensions, public sector salaries or any other money the state pays out to make them relatively lower over time. You just freeze them or make only small increases. This is what was done with child benefit for much of the 2010s, for example.

That's not to say state pension recipients are going to be willing to vote for parties cutting their income in real terms, of course. Recent history suggests they don't respond very positively to that, and we've no way of knowing yet whether the pandemic will change this tendency.