Rishi Sunak no more bailouts

[Elpresidente29]

He said government cannot go on like this...

‘It's not as simple as just putting everyone on UC rates. Some of these people will have been working for 20 plus years in a job they assumed was stable and have therefore lived/built their lives within those means accordingly. Yes people can live on £1000 pm. But not overnight when their existing responsibilities account to more than that.’

This has always been the case. Many people who end up on benefits due to sickness, industry closing, recession have worked for many years and have responsibilities taken on on the basis that their job was secure.

As a short term measure it was right to support people as far as possible but if it continues it won't be possible.

Of course having to survive on UC is going to bring great hardship but really, why should someone who's in need because of the financial implications CV be treated differently to someone in need for another reason?

We're in for a very deep recession, high inflation and high taxes for a long time to recover from this.

You'll find people's goodwill in protecting the NHS, saving lives etc will go down the pan very quickly I think.

Agreed. I do think it's started to already. There is only so far that will go before people want to earn a proper living and keep a roof over their head. I do agree with this.

We've all protected the nhs. They have capacity now and in better shape than they were on the 23rd March. They have the new Nightingale hospitals. They have had a bit of breathing space ( some places more than others I know) by getting the wards emptied out and getting complex cases sorted out and clinics stopped.
It's time for the next move to get the economy starting up because the nhs won't exist without people out working and sooner or later it will be swamped with non Covid problems and back logs to sort out anyway.

Schools opening up is a big big problem though! Lots of people don't have childcare to worry about so they will be ok of course but those relying on schools and grand parents for their offspring will be struggling and many employers might let them go as well using Covid as a big excuse. They won't care and just hire people without children.. lots to choose from ..
the fallout from this is huge for so many people let alone who is currently on furlough or whatever. It's so grim.

but surely if the government makes it illegal to work, it's a bit fascistic to cast those unemployed directly as a result off to the welfare state?

I agree.

They haven’t made it illegal to work. Lots of people are still at work. Lots are working from home or doing essential work. Jobs in retail and in the NHS are being advertised.

What you can’t do is participate in non essential work that would lead to you posing a risk to others, which is the case when we aren’t under a pandemic as well.

This has always been the case. Many people who end up on benefits due to sickness, industry closing, recession have worked for many years and have responsibilities taken on on the basis that their job was secure

Of course. I'm assuming that it's not 20 odd % of the work force in one go though.

Do you really think having thousands upon thousands of people entering the benefit system and unemployment at the same time is better?

Unemployment? The point was to reduce furlough to universal credit levels not to make people unemployed. We could furlough people for longer if furlough pay was less per person.

Have you ever seen a government dept go out to tender, months and months of endless meetings and they would far rather stay with the incumbent.

I spent years dealing with hopeless groups of people who couldnt make a decision to save their lives. One particular central government department claimed they couldnt sign anything new because they were in dispute with their central body who were wanting them to do something else. I stressed time and time again standard pricing would apply if they didnt make a firm decision. This went on for 18 months and was still going on when I left.

Not illegal no. But they have essentially banned various people from doing the jobs they were doing only 3 months ago.

You can't ban people from working and then go 'oh sorry, no you're not allowed to go to work right now but we're also not going to help you out either 🤷'.

The only logical thing is to end furlough and lockdown (in its current form) together. Carrying on with one whilst stopping the other will have terrible consequences for a lot of people.

It is all pie in the sky anyway. We will be sent back to work whether we like it or not.

We could furlough people for longer if furlough pay was less per person

Yes and everyone can just default on their mortgages, lose their homes and everything else, who cares.

I do think it is a really important point that we are not banned from working. You can work in another job while furloughed.

Everyone will be going back to work, but it will be staggered, I would suspect there will be extended furlough for those who need to remain shut Ie hospitality, but potentially not.

For everyone else it will be a desperate scrabble to get back to ensure there jobs are safe. In fact the moment the chancellor announced the end of furlough I imagine any sensible furloughed person will be immediately picking up the phone to their employer and demanding to go back ASAP. Because the longer this goes on, the more that will be made redundant.

Of course. I'm assuming that it's not 20 odd % of the work force in one go though.

Do you really think having thousands upon thousands of people entering the benefit system and unemployment at the same time is better?

If they look at it from a purely financial pov it might cost them less if a high number of the people on furlough would get less on UC than on furlough.

I wouldn't be surprised if the next hit is people being told that they need to claim UC rather than furlough if their employer is not paying them. That will take anyone with savings and anyone with a partner earning out of the bill. If the businesses are going to fold then people are going to be in that position anyway.

It's a shit storm and I can't see a good way out of it.

It was naive of the government not to realise that companies that could afford to pay their staff would still claim. It's very reminicent to them being surprised at the way they introduced tax credits merely increased the cost of childcare for everyone.

And how many people do you think are hiring right now? My friend has been applying to everything she can find and not had a single response.

Saying oh well you can just go get another job, is not really reasonable when we're talking about nearly a quarter of the UKs workforce and a lot of industries are closed.

But you won’t lose your home that quickly. That’s not how repossession works. You would just have mortgage arrears.

*by them I mean government. I know it was a different party

I do believe that parents going back to one being at home and one being at work will increase. Not just necessarily the woman either : more stay at home dads or doing rotas in order to work around their kids.
It's nothing new , but many people will have to adapt to a new way of working.
Surviving on one wage isn't easy but even if schools open they may not be as they were operating before. Single parents will suffer the most too.
Getting the economy moving won't be easy but has to be done! Its so sad really and so hard on so many with children.
(No wonder my son doesn't ever want children , I don't blame him)

I don't understand why people on long term uc benefits payments have been raised when most of the UK workforce are taking a 20% pay cut?
There are less places open to spend money does anyone know why it was raised.

I would also add, any furloughed person who has just been told furlough is ending, will not just be urgently on the phone to their employer, but screaming for child care or schools to be reopened to allow them to go back, if they can’t work from home.

Employers might give a short period of parental leave, unpaid, but that’s a big might, if people can’t work due to child care then they risk being laid off.

Surviving on one wage isn't easy

Or indeed possible for many

Clearly not everyone can get another job, but some people have, probably the people with the most appropriate skills and experience.

Exactly, for so many people they cannot survive on one wage.
I haven't any answers here but the fallout is so grim and I feel so sorry for people in an impossible situation.

I don't understand why people on long term uc benefits payments have been raised when most of the UK workforce are taking a 20% pay cut?
There are less places open to spend money does anyone know why it was raised

Many people on UC work.

Also people's costs went up - people home all day mean more heating bills, shopping is more expensive because of less deals etc. The people with the least have the least wiggle room for bills.