Rishi Sunak no more bailouts

[Elpresidente29]

He said government cannot go on like this...

Red. Interested in your response. So for 95% of government there are NO Final Salary Schemes? No gold plated payments that are not reliant on the stock market ups and downs?

Really? My DFIL was a dentist. He has retired on a Final Salary scheme. He is a higher rate tax payer with his government and state pension.

Amber, you cannot possibly know that! How do you know all of this will wasted?

I actually think furlough was overly generous but the government had to rush it. In times of crisis, all people need is shelter, energy, food and water. Nobody should be saving any money using government money but some people will be, as they can’t spend anything and have limited outgoings. For example a worker who lives with their parents. Also workers with no mortgage or debt. So they really need £2500 a month in some case. Possibly £5000 if a couple?

I think there will have to be some support going forward but it will be more in line with UC

No @sunglasses123, final salary schemes became a distant memory in the public sector at least 15 years ago. Those who had them were able to freeze them and start another pension on the new terms but there have been no new entrants for a very long time.

We should have copied what Sweden. They didn’t want to put us in lockdown so early but were pressured to by the British public.

I don’t think most people are aware of how fucked up financially the next few years are going to be.

am amused that someone seems to think after the sheer volume of austerity aimed at the public sector that we actually still have ludicrously overpriced final salary pension funds.

I'm not familiar with all the schemes, but the local government pension scheme, which covers more than FIVE MILLION people or 10% of the adult population, is funded on average at 19%.

The TWO MILLION plus (not all public sector, but mostly) teachers pension scheme is funded at 23.68%

The THREE MILLION plus NHS pension scheme is funded at 20.68%

The average private sector employee cash contribution is 2.1% as of 2017, though the minimum is now 3% as of 2019. Before 2018 the minimum rate was 1%.

If TEN TIMES HIGHER is not ludicrous, I don't know what is.

Smart public sector employees know how ludicrously expensive their pension schemes are....

I think there will have to be some support going forward but it will be more in line with UC

Why? Why reduce everybody to be on their arses and lose all their assets. Mortgages and loans will have to be payed back. So many people will lose their homes if this continues. The lock down needs to lifted

I suspect large amount of them will change their mind very quickly when their funding is cut off

Exactly
It's true that funding hasn't been removed yet, but it certainly will be and then there'll be hard decisions to make. As A PP wisely said, if it's a choice between locking down or feeding the family and keeping a roof over their heads, lockdown will lose every time

I am still working, albeit from home. I have taken a “voluntary” temporary pay reduction to 80% of my normal pay. In exchange I have to be available 5 days a week and work 80% of my contracted hours. I am working more than my contracted hours. My workload has not reduced.

DH is on furlough, he works in hospitality so mandatory closure. He is receiving 80% pay on furlough scheme and his employer is topping up. He is enjoying being at home, but is bored. He has not chosen to be at home.

DH would not receive UC based on my income, but he cannot, currently work.

My employer has furloughed staff, as some work cannot be done remotely, some clients do not want to run up fees when they are not generating income. It is complicated.

@Alsohuman to be clear the public sector no longer has final salary pension schemes but it has defined benefit schemes. These are just as bad as final salary schemes in terms of risk to the taxpayer. Private sector defined contribution schemes place the risk on the pensioner. Since defined benefit guarantees a fixed payout, actuarial and market changes mean the cost of providing the benefit can fluctuate hugely. This is reflected in the ludicrous 20%+ payments the government is making to the (wide open!) schemes

UC...then it becomes 'UC is pennies, I couldnt live on that!!!!!' from the same people who months back were kicking off that UC is apparently far far too high and allows a luxurious lifestyle hmm

Haha yes, this. But most people think everyone on benefits are feckless wasters, and no one ends up on them through no fault of their own ie redundancy. There was a thread last month about someone that was outraged they would have to use some savings until they were under £16k and eligible for UC; the same people who had likely been saying it's outrageous people can have that much just a month before.

I know that @ShootsFruitAndLeaves, I was responding to the pp who was incredulous at being told final salary schemes no longer exist.

@Teentitans15 it's not enough. But the OP was specifically talking about furloughed people.

Yes those overpaid public sector workers and their pensions. For most thats the only thing keeping them in, it would likely be more expensive to pay an equivalent industry wage over a whole career than a pension that has been eroded and shot to shit.

As A PP wisely said, if it's a choice between locking down or feeding the family and keeping a roof over their heads, lockdown will lose every time

Exactly. When the money stops coming, the kids will be back in school and people back in work.

Say what you want about the government, but they also know this, just as much as we all do. A large percentage of the people saying it’s too soon, let us have until September, will be right on the phone to their employers and the schools the minute the government closes its purse.

Then the 80 percent will drop drastically.

When it comes right down to it, for many this is about money. Not fear of survival or imminent death, it’s about what is the best case scenario for them.

This from earlier is staggering

More than half of Britain’s adult population is now being bankrolled by the state amid warnings from the Chancellor that the furlough scheme could soon cost as much as the NHS. Analysis of official figures shows that 27 million people are now being funded by the Government amid growing concern over the devastating toll to the economy wrought by the coronavirus pandemic

His more measured statement a few posts up is interesting but I hope he doesn’t draw it out too long to wind down the scheme.

Sorry random “of survival “ in there..🤪

When I go back to work I will have marginally greater contact with people than I do now!

In a busy week I meet about 2 or 3 people a day, for about 5 minutes at a time maximum. I work alone, in empty houses. My contact levels would be much as they are now, walking the bloody dog in a nigh on empty park!

So actually the biggest benefit of the scheme which is that you get the pension regardless of stock market achievement is still there!

I would love to have had a scheme like this.

The way the PP spoke it was as though their pensions were the same as the rest of us these days.

When it comes right down to it, for many this is about money. Not fear of survival or imminent death, it’s about what is the best case scenario for them

Yes, and that includes the government

Also all you idiots who want to force people back to work now, you do realise if we all go back to work now, the government won't only have mismanaged to the extent that we now have the highest deaths in Europe but we'll be back to square one and just have to do it all again?

Well, how much longer do you think furlough can last for?

Sunglasses - so your FIL is now retired yes? Then he fell into the 5% where those a certain number of years away from retirement age were not affected. Those past that cut off had terms changed.

We even went on strike at the time as terms and conditions were being fiddled with at same time as pension changes. For example my sector had a retirement age of 55 due to the nature for example, however that was removed despite other similar sectors keeping it.

I work with elderly clients, ranging from 76-86 and it has really surprised me that many of them tell me that they cannot understand why the country is being sacrificed when they have effectively lived their lives. They too worry for the future of their children and grand-children. This is not the same thing as promoting euthanasia but just a recognition that we may be saving lives but the lives of others with a hell of a lot more time in front of them are going to be ruined in lots of different ways. Our children have no voice; others must step up and speak for them. I certainly don't want the burden of paying for all this to fall disproportionately on the shoulders of my children when they are already facing so many additional hurdles as they make their way through life.

I worked alongside government workers for over 30 years as a supplier. I can tell you the pension is one of many benefits. They have a job for life, they have no worry about the stock market trashing their pensions, they are difficult to fire (anyone know how many teachers have been fired for being rubbish at their jobs?). They will not have worries about going back to their old roles.

Some of them knew exactly how many sick days they were allowed to have before questions were asked. I found over the years numerous people went off sick for stress, and then back again.

The middle managers were empire building and the senior managers didnt want to make a decision. I worked on both central, local and HA's. I vowed never to work on a local authority account again a few years ago. They were truly awful and even when cost savings could be made they would rather keep to the norm as they didnt want to be 'blamed' if something went wrong.

Yes, and that includes the government

I think if that was true we would not have had the extensive bail outs we have seen, but they have to stop somewhere for gods sake.

Also all you idiots who want to force people back to work now, you do realise if we all go back to work now, the government won't only have mismanaged to the extent that we now have the highest deaths in Europe but we'll be back to square one and just have to do it all again?

Not if we socially distance where possible, and follow any other guidelines.

And as a pp said,how long would you like Britain to keep locked down for and paying half the populations wages?