To not want social distancing at nursery

[Sadie789]

There’s been lots of discussion about when schools go back and what age groups will go first and the measures that will be put in place to support social distancing etc when this happens.

I’ve yet to hear any mention of nurseries. However I’ve been thinking about it a lot as I live near our nursery and pass it often. It actually breaks my heart to think of all the hardworking people who ran the nursery and made it such an amazing place for my DC who get so much from it and are missing it terribly.

But how can nurseries ever go back if social distancing is to be the “new normal”?

I don’t want my tiny children being looked after by people in PPE. I don’t want them not to be able to sit on their teacher’s lap for a story, or get a hug if they fall over, or have a literal helping hand when painting or doing a puzzle.

How will staff help zip up coats or change nappies?

I don’t want them to be kept apart from their friends, to be told how to play with them or have their numbers limited or staggered.

It’s not fair on very young children to be thrust into a new and strange world that they simply can’t have any real understanding of.

Does this mean nurseries will remain closed until next year? Some people even seem to think social distancing will be permanent- what implications does that have on our young children and how they learn about relationships and friendships? What about their developing immune systems being artificially disconnected from the normal cycle of infection and immunity (to other illnesses)?

I feel like under 5s have been forgotten about completely in this pandemic.

Can I suggest that September might actually be a better time for baby to start nursery than November... DS started in November and he seemed to get every single illness going, it was a bit disruptive in terms of settling back in at work!

@NameChange30 I’ve already changed it, but expecting lots of time off-we both have very family friendly employers and generous annual leave fortunately!
To be honest I’d probably have extended it anyway, loving being off and as this will be our only child I feel may as well make the most of it and take all of it.

I work at a preschool that has remained open to keyworkers’ children. We aren’t wearing masks, the children get cuddles, nappy changes etc we are just extra vigilant about washing hands. It would be a lot harder if we had our usual 20 plus children to monitor handwashing so I am interested to see how this pans out.

I agree that there has been a bizarre lack of discussion around childcare for pre-schoolers. It's almost as if there's still an assumption that the majority of 0-4 yo have a SAHP.
My 18mo has never been in any kind of childcare setting we are very lucky that my parents provide childcare. I work in a school and although I'm currently WFH, when schools reopen I will have to decide whether I put him in a Nursery, with no settling in period as parents won't be allowed in, so literally handing him to a stranger at the door as a PP said or send him to my DP's. They are in their early 60's and neither have any health issues but the Govt have said grandparents shouldn't be providing childcare so it's a dilemma.

Megan
Fair enough, enjoy the rest of your maternity leave
(I didn't enjoy mine much )

@Megan2018 This worries me, too. DD just turned one, she was supposed to have a week of settle sessions with me there, then a week of short days; I just started work today and obviously she's home with me and my employer is very understanding, but that understanding won't last if nurseries reopen but we can't send her in because we can't settle her. I can't just drop her with strangers for entire days! God knows what the solution is, though.

My 1 year old is still at nursery (our has closed but they are a chain so they have a "hub" for keyworkers 20 mins away). The only difference is gel before entry and no messy play. The numbers are very low as well. My DD still has cuddles and is well cared for. They have accepted that to give appropriate care maxed out in PPE is not achievable.

@burritofan check with your nursery. My DD started recently and she still had 2 weeks of settling, some with me there. It was pretty important to me dispute the risk.

@CorkingHell Thank you. Good to hear some nurseries are still doing settle sessions. I'll ask them but their policy might change, I guess, depending on advice. They're actually closed even to key worker children as their staff live with shielding and vulnerable people. I'd rather quit my job than send DD in without settling (and I'm just about able to do that, though it's a nail in the career coffin), but also I doubt she'd last a day without some settling sessions anyway.

I agree it's being ignored in any discussions/daily updates. Our nursery never closed as they've had keyworker children in, so rather than the media and the government lumping nurseries in with talk about 1st June vs September, certain years going back first, transitions to secondary etc etc I wish they'd comment directly on nurseries.

I am in the SW and we've not had any positive tests in the children or nursery workers so far, which is why I'm happy to send DS back 2 days a week. I need that to happen before I can look for a job after being made redundant. If it is going to be September, then nobody will hire me now so I'm wasting my time looking!

I work in a creche in France. We have been open throughout for the children of key workers. Social distancing is impossible with the children. Masks have been provided to us but the children are frightened of them. Next week they will be obligatory but I think we will just use them on hangovers to parents.

Now we are coming out of lockdown we can only take 10 children and usually we have between 30 and 35. Our creche is physically being cut in half so we can have 2 creches with different personnel, etc. This still leaves lots of our families without childcare and half of our staff without work. Although some are high risk and have their own children to look after as schools have a staggered return.

@burritofan I'm not sure how much the settling actual helped. She's been really happy to see some new stuff and people after being stuck with me though!
The nursery manager told me today they usually get a bit upset a few weeks in but do get over it.
Don't end your career over settling, babies adjust very quickly and the staff have seen it all before. They deal with new babies all the time.
If it's really bothering you, what about a child minder instead? Smaller group with more of a homey feel

I can tell you what childcare owners/managers in my area have been discussing?

Social distancing won't be enforced between staff and children but:
Group sizes might be smaller and half days may not be offered. Staff and children will stay consistent within that group.
Parents aren't to come into the building.
Children's shoes and coats are to be left outside playrooms.
No toys from home.
No lunches from home or lunchboxes cleaned when they come in.
More cleaning and reduced resources - only toys that can be easily sterilised.
Much reduced settling in sessions and parents not coming into the setting or into contact with other children during them eg "settling visits" only happening outside.
Zero tolerance on illness, temperatures taken on arrival and no exceptions made for "teething". No child allowed in if they have been medicated pre-nursery.

It's not ideal obviously, but settings have to be aware of the safety of all children and staff.

I can't even look round nurseries let alone chose one. I totally understand why but it's going to be a nightmare. I'm not back at work until Christmas so I'm hoping things will have improved by then.
I couldn't leave my baby without doing setting in sessions, although it will only be half days.

@CaryStoppins surely exceptions shouldn't have been made for 'teething' anyway? How will you know if a child has been medicated before nursery if the parent didn't disclose it?

I agree OP. Mine are all reception and younger and I am torn between knowing they need and want to go back but also if safety measures are too extreme (e.g. staff wearing masks, children can’t get within 2 metres) I actually think that could be psychologically damaging to young children. I’m contemplating keeping them all at home as at least they can hug, play with each other.

Even for older children, I dread to think of the long term emotional and social damage from forcing children to sit/stand far enough apart they can’t have private conversations etc for months or years, and what this will do psychologically. I think for under 16s we should just accept that none of the data from countries where schools are open (Iceland, UK before lockdown etc) indicates children are major transmitters and that the risk to them or the teachers is low compared to the societal risk of psychological trauma from being able to interact normally in formative years.

@AndMyHairWillShineLikeTheSea you have to trust parents to an extent though, don't you?
Personally I would immediately terminate the contract of any parent caught lying about health/medication issues.

notalways
Completely agree

@CaryStoppins I'd think the parents that are medicating kids to keep a fever down and send them to nursery are not going to tell the nursery. Call me cynical.

Not much you can do about that unfortunately.

DS is in mainstream but with a 121, there's no way his 121 could be 2 m away when they're connected by an oxyge tube (121 wearing the cylinder and DS in the nasal prongs). I can't insist his 121 has no life, doesn't snog lots of guys, party every Friday night, run around the supermarket licking stuff. There's no way social distancing can work for him and he's high risk so no frigging idea when or how i send him back

@notalwaysalondoner could not agree more. There is going to be so much going through their little brains.

There are older children and young teens in my extended family and they are all apparently getting bored and demotivated now the novelty has worn off. There’s a lot of online activity (gaming, TikTok) and it feels like they could psychologically start relying on that for social interaction and that’s a path most of us didn’t wang the younger generations to go down.

Also a PP alluded to this but I’m actually very worried my nursery won’t open again at all. It’s a small private one, and from the tone of the communications during the initial lockdown instruction it all sounded very final.

Add that to the fact that Scotland quietly dropped the 30 free hours childcare provision at the start of all this... the whole pre school childcare system is in real risk of collapse.

Nurseries are a major problem. There is no way that social distancing can take place not only because the kids simply do not understand that but also because there is no way that nurseries will be financially viable if they have to take less children etc. Nursery finances are already on the brink of disaster because the 30 free hours are actually paid for at such a low rate by the DfE. The more the DfE push the 30 free hours the more they push more nurseries to the brink of bankruptcy.
Unless there is a significant increase in funding there are going to be many nurseries that simply do not open again. If there is no nurseries there are no parents going out to work and we get on a merry go round which is just not possible to sustain as a country

@admission 30 free hours on hold in Scotland. Was that a UK wide initiative?