Nightingale Hospitals - winding down?

[Biscuit0110]

I can not be the only one that thinks this is a good thing!!

The reporting is really strange, almost a disappointment that we did not see rows and rows of dying people at the Nightingales. I, for one feel really relieved that we didn't need them in the end, and our NHS coped so well.

The footage coming out of China, Italy, New York and Spain was just horrendous. Patients dying on the floor, and in corridors. In the case of China on the street. That could have been us, without a back up. Many, many more lives would have been lost.

My second thought is why are they closing them so soon? We can see from the modelling that a second wave is very likely, so if it does come in the middle of the winter surely we will need them then? Particularly as even during a normal winter hospitals are often overcrowded.

Or being optimistic do we think the vaccine is quietly gaining momentum, and we may be ready for the winter with much of the public vaccinated?

They are standing them down, not closing them. They will be able to reopen them quickly if need be.

And of course it’s a good watching they weren’t full of intimated patients.

So standing down means they will remain ready, but not staffed?

The wording and descriptions are misleading at best, one example:

metro.co.uk/2020/05/04/empty-nhs-nightingale-hospital-excel-centre-closed-within-days-12649980/

It’s obviously a good thing they were not overwhelmed by dying patients.

It’s a bad thing that so much money, time, and medical resources were tied up in them though. It’s a failure of planning and modelling.

Why has testing been so inadequate while this area was over-provisioned? It’s not good enough for politicians to throw their hands up and claim they’ve had the best intentions. Thousands of people are dead because of their poor decision making.

Just wait for the second peak, they’ll use them then when thousands catch it from reopening.

I think they could have taken people in earlier who might have benefited from oxygen to recover a la Boris but not venitilation rather than leaving them suffering at home. Don’t get me wrong I fully understand the premise of not needing them being a ‘success’ rather than a waste, but maybe if they’d used that effort for treating more minor cases, maybe a few more would have escaped ITU rather than getting blue lighted into hospital on deaths door 3 days later. It’s an unknown but might have been worth a shot. Though possibly not if staffing them was an issue...

They were empty because the criteria for admission was shockingly high, so I think it's a travesty that they weren't better utilised, because more lives could have been saved. That's probably another discussion though.

It's more that there were I'll people refused hospital treatment despite beds being empty.

I don't really understand what their forecast actuall expected. On the one hand the figure of 20,000 was mooted but on the other they have these massive hospitals which haven't really been used enough. How many were they actually expecting to need a hospital? Does this mean the. Infection rate is lower but the death rate is higher or what?

Also like you say it seems a bit premature given we are still on lockdown, surely when shops/pubs/ schools reopen we need to be ready for an increase again.i get that they are still ready to go but they can't be staffed.

They will be used if needed during the second, third, fourth etc waves. It’s fantastic they weren’t needed but that they were there in case.

@SnuggyBuggy what?

They are standing down and, as hospitals begin to open the 'paused' units future COVID cases will probably go to them, now they are built, will have machines and the returning / additional staff to man them.

Why has testing been so inadequate while this area was over-provisioned? Becasue the materials existed, the man power exosted to build them.

The materials for tests, hell, reliable tests then valid mass tests simply did not exist. They were being made, all over the world, as son as the materials and tests themselves were available / invented!

Thousands of people are dead because of their poor decision making. No, hundreds of thousands of people are dead because of a novel virus!

They were never properly staffed. Hospitals weren’t able to transfer patients there unless they could also send the staff to look after them - which defeated the object.

I am waiting to have surgery, I am also waiting to have some scans for cancer. I feel very frightened at the prospect of being in hospital with so many patients with coronavirus. It is the reason I am not in one now.
So why don't they keep the Nightingales open, move all CoVid patients into them and allow the main hospitals to continue looking after everyone else?

I am assuming there must be many people in the same position as me. I am too afraid to go to the hospital right now, and can't see how this is going to change...

On the one hand the figure of 20,000 was mooted No, it really wasn't. That was a comment to a select committee on the various possibilities, the likely outcomes in a variety of scenarios. It was leaped upon and used variously as a reason to dismiss the threat of COVID and now to beat science advisors. We know about it becuase such stuff is, in the UK, freely available to us all!

but on the other they have these massive hospitals which haven't really been used enough. They responded to the threat as seen in Wuhan, Italy etc. Very early on and without any information on possible effectiveness of control measures.

What would you say had they not built them and lockdown had no effect?

No, not with hindsight, but with the information the world had at the time!

No, not with hindsight, but with the information the world had at the time!

That is how I see it too. I could not agree more, they were built with the best information about overwhelmed hospitals all over the world, however unless the infection and hospital admissions for CoVid drop off a cliff when will it be safe to use a hospital with the risk of catching coronavirus?

*without

when will it be safe to use a hospital without the risk of catching coronavirus? Who knows? I would assume that there will be data on each hospital about the specific R, so you can make an informed choice.

Chris Whitty et al did say they were measuring that directly!

Why can't they be used for the elderly in care homes who have Covid 19, so they can get treatment and be more closely monitored rather then them being kept in the care homes.

So why don't they keep the Nightingales open, move all CoVid patients into them and allow the main hospitals to continue looking after everyone else

Because the Nightingales aren’t proper hospitals. They are conference centres with ventilators in them. They can deal with a limited amount of pathology (mostly just respiratory failure) - they can’t handle patients needing dialysis ( a lot of covid patients have needed this) or anything more complex. They’re also currently not set up for rehab so a lot of patients “discharged” have not been ready for home and so go back to the referring hospital for rehab.
I’m really sorry your care has been delayed. Hospitals are really trying to find solutions but it isn’t easy. IMO the Nightingales would be better as rehab facilities but that’s not how they were set up and would need a huge overhaul to do this (& more £££)

They were never used much because there weren't enough staff for them and as I understand it, hospitals who wanted to transfer patients to them had to also transfer staff for their care.

I don't understand why more people were not taken into hospital if they had all this spare space? Why were so many left to die outside of hospital? It's not so much that the beds weren't needed as that they chose not to use them.

mouldy Thank you that is a very helpful post, and now I understand. I think this kind of information would be really useful to the public. We are all waiting and wondering how long it will be.

I am feeling anxious that I am waiting so long because I have two kids, and if is the worst case scenario - like many others - that is going to have consequences.

What the fuck was the point of them if they can't actually be used to treat anyone then? To make it seem like the government were doing something?

They were never fully utilised because there was no staff. They turned patients away. Utter waste of funds, poorly thought through. Shambolic.