To think this school's plan won't work

[Poppi89]

I work in a secondary school ( not as a teacher) and we have been kept up to date by email and zoom staff meetings.

There has been a lot of talk of when we will re-open and what will happen as like most schools it was very stressful closing the school and not being prepared so they are trying to put plans in place and keep one step ahead.

Due to a lot of parents in the area wanting the school to re-open and for life to go back to 'normal' they think the government might re-open schools sooner rather than later maybe before May half term, so the school has put in place an outline of what will happen:

• School will re-open but will continue sticking to the guidelines of social distancing - as this is not possible in a school with full capacity students will be split into halves or thirds to ensure they are spaced far enough away from each other. This means that the kids will only be in 1/2 days a week.

• Due to adults spreading the virus more than children (it seems) they don't think all staff should be in each day. So will be depending on parents to do a rota system - so one qualified member of staff to 2 parents to supervise.

Does anybody else think the school would be better to remain closed if this is the case?
It seems they won't be learning much and the risk of getting the virus will still be high.

I do get that this is the best plan they have come up with to keep everyone happy. My DD is missing her friends and wouldn't mind going back to school a couple of days a week and I guess it will be easier for parents to get back to work but I would rather wait until June/July at the earliest as surely the NHS is still overwhelmed.

What do you guys think?
AIBU - thinking this isn't a good plan

Teachers are often alone with pupils-it’s unavoidable.

Letseatgrandma-if you're a teacher you wouldn't need a volunteer in your classroom as you're trained and know what you're doing. The volunteers I assume would be with other members of staff who aren't teachers but still have a DBS

So how will having volunteers help reopen schools that don’t have enough teachers?

@2ndStar - I just copied and pasted what you said - so I answered just that. The answer to any of your questions is that I do not know - I have said this all along. It is not my plan and so I don't know.

I have said there are over 1000 pupils so say 1000 parents - even 1/4 of this would mean there are 250 parents which would be way more than they would ever need. But I honestly don't know how they would work out the numbers without maybe asking parents first and then deciding.

OP - you said this upthread no member of staff should ever be alone with a child

@Bladeofgrass - I think the point is it is a response to people going back to work. Pupils would be set work by the teacher and they would be supervised like they are being now. So my view is they are being put at risk when they are not going to be learning much.

It is basically what is happening now - but more pupils will be in school so more parents can go back to work. This is just my assumption I don't know any details and I can't see how it would work. I do understand that some parents want to go back to work though.

Even the first pass at this “plan”would include calculations of how many volunteers are needed to operate it. I’m going to assume your school thinks this number is achievable.

Even if they achieve the number it still results no meaningful benefit for an enormous administrative time hog, massive complications of timetabling, additional complications of delivering the curriculum, increased strain on teachers who would be creating and delivering every lesson in two forms. Plus many other factors not forgetting an increased infection risk.

Ok so people are posting the same thing I am saying - but I am still being branded a liar

You have taken offence that I was given information about a potential plan and are trying to bully me into what? Telling the school to F off, hoping that it is the not the same school your DC attend.

I really don't understand the attacks. I am being asked the same questions over and over. I have tried my best to answer them. Others have also tried to answer them but at the end of the day, I don't know!

As I said I am disappointed at Mumsnet as I appreciate the opinions usually but if I look in between the lines I can see that everyone actually agrees with my OP.

The only thing that might work is too expand the current keychildren only school places to those parents who need to work and can't work from home.

This will help people to get back to work and it would be voluntary therefore not forcing parents to send their kids to school now.

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I will not send my kids back to school until I can with reasonable safety get them to school, two of my kids travel on a packed public bus. And when it is safe enough for all school years to be there together.

If they wanted only one of my high school kids in, I would not be sending them in like a guineapig to see if the experiment of opening school was successful. For just one year or half days...they do more school work via the online portal.

I hope it will September for school reopening. If they do open in June, I will be keeping my kids home for at least three weeks, to see if the resulting peak of illness in the teachers/parents/children forces them to close again.

I think when schools do open might be like this, as it won’t be a straight back to normal, plus so teachers could be sick or isolating due to family sickness. A friend who lives overseas has her children returning 2 days a week and I think it’s a good idea. I don’t think we will return here before September though

Op, I wish you would stop saying that anyone who disagrees with you is accusing you of lying! It's not helpful.

I think you're right that everyone thinks that the plan is bad so I don't know why you're having a go at so many posters who are agreeing with you!

It sounds as though what your school is suggesting is an expanded version of the current keyworker children provision - where the schools are open but no on-site teaching is going on, and the teachers/support staff are all there in a supervisory role. Something like that may well happen, as it seems almost certain that return to school will be phased whenever it happens. I'm just not entirely clear what the point of the parent helpers is. They won't be able to look after classes on their own, and what use would they be to the admin staff or whoever is in charge of the class?

That said, if my kids' school asked for parent volunteers I would do it.

@Worrysaboutalot I totally agree with you, I will be doing the same thing. Because the truth is this would be an experiment, no one really knows what will happen. Will lots more schools staff and vulnerable parents get ill and some die? In areas with few cases probably not, in areas with more cases probably yes.
And the government may think overall it is worth a lot more people dying to get everyone back to work. Well I am not going to let it be any of my family.

If they sent kids back to school though I would be visiting my parents. They go nowhere and see no one just like us. So if both households continue to stay isolated then my children can see their grandparents again. I think that would help their mental health more. We also have a family friend with kids who is totally self isolating strictly. If they continued to do so I would also be happy for my kids to go there. Both households get home delivery only food.

I understand infection control and how to minimise risk. We can do more and still be very safe. But sending kids back to a crowded classroom is always going to increase transmission.

I have run or helped out in a lot of volunteer run provision for kids. Getting parents to volunteer at all is extremely difficult. I suspect you won't get enough parents volunteering anyway even if this was a good idea.
And if it is just childcare then its only purpose is to get parents back to work who cant wfh. It is not about what is best for the children.

@AuntieUrsula

Multiple people have accused me of lying - some people have reported me for putting up a fake post.

Other people have posted that their schools are also making plans. People have posted that they have volunteers without a DBS check etc. But I am the only one that is not believed.

A large part of my job is working with trainee teachers and those on work experience. One of the first things I tell them ( with DBS) is do not put yourself in a position where you are alone with a pupils not only am I told to say this from SLT but I also had to learn this the hard way (I was not accused of anything). Then people have said I am wrong and it is not law etc - when I never said it was law. Anybody with any intelligence would know I do not mean passing them in the corridor, or them coming in and asking a question but people have turned it around to try and make other posters believe I am a fake poster. I am not else I would have been removed. These posters have an alternative motive and Mumsnet have picked up on it.

For those who genuinely don't believe my school would be making plans there is a thread with many posters talking about the plans that their school's are making. These are obviously not set in stone and subject to change but many schools will be being pro-active. Those who have said their schools are not making plans or that it is a waste of time - chances are your school is making plans but you haven't been told yet.

I do not agree with my schools' idea but when you read the thread and many schools are saying the same thing that they don't have enough staff then I can see why my school has come up with this idea.

I have been asked my availability which like many staff depends on our DCs schools re-openeing.

The thread is how will large school's cope.

I can't see many parents wanting to volunteer either - may be in a primary but secondary is completely different.

I know someone has said I am using the word plan wrong and should be saying scenario but I am continuing to use the word plan as this is what I have put in my OP and what people on other threads have called it too -so as not to cause confusion.

You have talked about lying far more than anyone else on this thread.

A large part of my job is working with trainee teachers and those on work experience. One of the first things I tell them ( with DBS) is do not put yourself in a position where you are alone with a pupils not only am I told to say this from SLT but I also had to learn this the hard way (I was not accused of anything). Then people have said I am wrong and it is not law etc - when I never said it was law. Anybody with any intelligence would know I do not mean passing them in the corridor, or them coming in and asking a question but people have turned it around to try and make other posters believe I am a fake poster.
I never said you said it was the law. You've said staff shouldn't be alone with students. You've said that staff are advised not to be alone with students.

I didn't turn it round at all.

You've said staff shouldn't be alone with students and that people should go and inform someone or get a colleague. Even in the bit I've just replied to you're saying you tell trainees not to be alone.

I've pointed out a number of situations where it's absolutely appropriate for a member of staff to be alone.

If I remember correctly, you also said something to the effect that you're concerned I work in a school for disagreeing with your presentation of safeguarding.

Now you're saying anyone with any intelligence would know that it doesn't apply to students coming in with a question and that pointing out entirely reasonable situations where staff would be alone is apparently twisting things. It isn't.

You're just contradicting yourself. Either staff shouldn't be alone with students (what you've claimed throughout the thread) or it's perfectly reasonable for them to exercise professional judgement. You can't have it both ways.

I think we are just going to have to get the schools back and live with the consequences. Any other way is too complicated.

As for being alone with children it just depends. my children's father is a music teacher and for one to one music lessons those are just about always just the teacher and pupil.

I think we are just going to have to get the schools back and live with the consequences.

Says someone who expects the consequences to not impact them. Boris made that mistake.

@Xenia

I think we are just going to have to get the schools back and live with the consequences. Any other way is too complicated.

It's hard to "live with the consequences" if/when the consequence is death

Well I guess if I stop posting after the "suck it and see" approach we'll know why.

@LolaSmiles - people were saying that a parent without a DBS check should not be alone with children - I said they will never be alone with a pupil. I re-stated this a few times for those not understanding or concerned that their child might be alone with someone unsafe. I then said

the DBS is to protect the child but no member of staff should ever be alone with a child. If they need to speak to you in private you are told you need to ask another member of staff to come in or open a door so other staff are aware

You know exactly what I mean when I say they need to talk in private - not ask about homework, have one-one tutor or pass along the corridor as you suggested.
But you said -- There isn't a rule about not being alone with a student.

So I said I never said there was a rule/law etc I said you are advised

by law, you cannot be alone if you're not DBS checked but to protect yourself even when you are DBS checked you are advised to not be alone with them.

Someone also posted that they had also been told in all the schools they've worked at that they are also told to avoid being alone and putting themself in a potential situation - you didn't say anything to them but if you genuinely work in a school then you know they do not mean all those things you said to me like being asked a question etc

I think if it was a case of re-opening schools and just going back to normal no-one would send their kids in anyway.

On a different thread someone said they've sent surveys around to parents - I wonder if they're trying to see how many will actually come in.

You're being seletive because you've also said:
I have a DBS and I am told constantly never to be alone with a child to protect yourself.
And
It is for both - the DBS is to protect the child but no member of staff should ever be alone with a child. If they need to speak to you in private you are told you need to ask another member of staff to come in or open a door so other staff are aware.
And
I can guarantee anyone who works in a secondary school would be told to not put themself in a position where they are alone with a child.
And
A large part of my job is working with trainee teachers and those on work experience. One of the first things I tell them ( with DBS) is do not put yourself in a position where you are alone with a pupils not only am I told to say this from SLT but I also had to learn this the hard way (I was not accused of anything).

You actually spend quite a bit of time saying staff shouldn't be alone.
Nobody is putting words in your mouth. Nobody is twisting what you're saying.

The bottom line is there are entirely appropriate times where a member of school staff may be alone with students.

And that's before you get into suggesting I don't work in a school:
If none of your staff have ever been told to not put themselves in a situation when you're alone with them then I do not believe you work in a school
I am shocked that as someone who works in a school you have never heard of this @LolaSmiles**
if you genuinely work in a school then you know they do not mean all those things you said to me like being asked a question etc

As I've said, you can't have it both ways. You can't repeatedly say staff shouldn't be alone with students, deny having said it, go on the offensive with posters and then when entirely reasonable examples where staff may be alone with students say 'oh but of course everyone knows the examples you've given don't count'.

But those statements were to someone who said they work in a school - therefore they should know the times I am talking about. There were also other posters who said the same thing I did - so are they wrong too?

I did not describe every single incident when a teacher and pupil are alone together. Just like I said that those without a DBS check would never be alone with a pupil but you know if they both walked down the corridor they would be alone but it is a completely different scenario. And it would be pointless me going through every scenario when a child and teacher may appropriately be alone together if I am talking to someone who is used to the school environment.

but no member of staff should ever be alone with a child. If they need to speak to you in private you are told you need to ask another member of staff to come in or open a door so other staff are aware.

Where have I said that if they're asking you a question about homework you must get another member of staff. Anyone who works in a school will know what I mean when I say if they ask to speak to you in private or when I've put do not put yourself in a situation - surely you would have come across these things before.