To think this school's plan won't work

[Poppi89]

I work in a secondary school ( not as a teacher) and we have been kept up to date by email and zoom staff meetings.

There has been a lot of talk of when we will re-open and what will happen as like most schools it was very stressful closing the school and not being prepared so they are trying to put plans in place and keep one step ahead.

Due to a lot of parents in the area wanting the school to re-open and for life to go back to 'normal' they think the government might re-open schools sooner rather than later maybe before May half term, so the school has put in place an outline of what will happen:

• School will re-open but will continue sticking to the guidelines of social distancing - as this is not possible in a school with full capacity students will be split into halves or thirds to ensure they are spaced far enough away from each other. This means that the kids will only be in 1/2 days a week.

• Due to adults spreading the virus more than children (it seems) they don't think all staff should be in each day. So will be depending on parents to do a rota system - so one qualified member of staff to 2 parents to supervise.

Does anybody else think the school would be better to remain closed if this is the case?
It seems they won't be learning much and the risk of getting the virus will still be high.

I do get that this is the best plan they have come up with to keep everyone happy. My DD is missing her friends and wouldn't mind going back to school a couple of days a week and I guess it will be easier for parents to get back to work but I would rather wait until June/July at the earliest as surely the NHS is still overwhelmed.

What do you guys think?
AIBU - thinking this isn't a good plan

Due to adults spreading the virus more than children (it seems) they don't think all staff should be in each day. So will be depending on parents to do a rota system - so one qualified member of staff to 2 parents to supervise.

If I’m teaching a class of 10/15/30 children, how would giving me two parents to supervise help the school open? They couldn’t be alone with children so couldn’t be in changer of children in another room.

I’m not knocking volunteers-we have loads come in to my school-I often timetable them. They will be of no use in opening schools though, as they themselves can’t be left with children.

It is for both - the DBS is to protect the child but no member of staff should ever be alone with a child. If they need to speak to you in private you are told you need to ask another member of staff to come in or open a door so other staff are aware
The DBS is to inform the school of any convictions up to the point when the DBS was done, or later if the update service is used.

I wish people would stop posting things that are inaccurate regarding safeguarding.

There is nothing to say an adult should never be alone with a child. Individual schools may have their own policies but there isn't a blanket rule.

Poppi89 you seem to be arguing both sides throughout the thread.

LolaSmiles - I can guarantee anyone who works in a secondary school would be told to not put themself in a position where they are alone with a child. DBS check or not it makes no difference - by law, you cannot be alone if you're not DBS checked but to protect yourself even when you are DBS checked you are advised to not be alone with them.

• please can someone else who works in a school confirm this as I am not lying about this!!

Letseatgrandma - if you're a teacher you wouldn't need a volunteer in your classroom as you're trained and know what you're doing. The volunteers I assume would be with other members of staff who aren't teachers but still have a DBS.

• thank you for saying you have volunteers in your school - some people have said schools don't have volunteers.

LolaSmiles - Please can you explain how I am arguing both sides of the thread?

I am arguing to defend myself but my position hasn't changed that I don't think this 'plan' is acceptable.

I have tried to stay neutral as I have been asked in my DDs school to volunteer so in theory the plan of using parents is not a terrible idea as it does happen but I still don't think a school should open if they cannot run without volunteers.

LolaSmiles - I can guarantee anyone who works in a secondary school would be told to not put themself in a position where they are alone with a child. DBS check or not it makes no difference - by law, you cannot be alone if you're not DBS checked but to protect yourself even when you are DBS checked you are advised to not be alone with them.

- please can someone else who works in a school confirm this as I am not lying about this!!

I work in a secondary school as a teacher.

Someone without a DBS can't be unsupervised with children.
There isn't a rule about not being alone with a student.

Are you seriously saying that during a busy school day with 1,000+ students on site a teacher should say "I'm really sorry Beth, but I can't answer your question about the homework until I've walked around the department to find another member of staff to supervise this conversation or to inform them that I'm about to have a conversation with you"? That would take longer than talking to the student.

This is straight from the vision for education website! I cannot believe I am being accused of lying again!!

Under normal circumstances never be on your own with a pupil.

If you cannot avoid the above, have the classroom door open and seek the attention of others (teachers or students).

If you find yourself in a one-to-one situation within a classroom, do not place yourself between the student and the door.

Poppi in all the schools I’ve worked in it’s been advised to be careful, so perhaps leave the door open if you are alone, but it’s definitely not forbidden. Lots of schools have one to one meetings with tutor group members from time to time, for eg. Also heads of Year will often have to see pupils alone. There are some pupils you would be told not to do this with in any circumstances, but it’s not normally a rule for all pupils. 30 years’ teaching experience, if it matters.
I don’t think anyone is saying your are telling lies, more that you have understood it incorrectly, or your school is an outlier with its procedures.

I am shocked that as someone who works in a school you have never heard of this @LolaSmiles

LolaSmiles - yes this!

Anyone else concerned that the plan being discussed would have non-teachers supervising the non-DBS checked volunteers? I am, because one of this group has demonstrated they do not understand safe guarding.

It’s not the volunteers that are the concern. It’s the people supervising them.

cardibach - I have never said it's forbidden. Someone said people without DBS checks shouldn't be alone with a child and I agreed and said even those with DBS checks are advised to not be alone to protect themselves but someone said this was wrong. Therefore implying I am lying.

2ndStar So you're for volunteers now? Just not the staff. You have changed your tune.

Poppi89 what you have posted does not say you must never be alone with a child. It just doesn’t. It says if it is avoidable - avoid it.

www.visionforeducation.co.uk/looking-for-work/classroom-advice/keeping-yourself-and-your-pupils-safe

This is the website which is a partnership of tes

poppi89
Vision for Education is an agency. That is their advice for their agency staff.

It shocks me that you're quick to claim there are blanket rules that don't exist and then get defensive when challenged.

cardibach
Exactly. It's about professional judgement.

No I haven’t changed my tune at all.

I have asked where the volunteers are coming from - no answer.
I have asked what benefit this plan has - no answer.
I have at no point said volunteers are a risk.

said even those with DBS checks are advised to not be alone

When did I say you must never be alone - I said you are advised to avoid it.

Again people are re-writing what I've actually said. This is ridiculous!

I’ve objected to your judgement of those who can’t volunteer - that hasn’t changed either.

Anyone else concerned that the plan being discussed would have non-teachers supervising the non-DBS checked volunteers?
Yes.
But I'm also concerned that this plan has been shared on a public forum by someone who works in a school and seemingly doesn't have a detailed knowledge of safeguarding.

I have asked where the volunteers are coming from - no answer.
I have asked what benefit this plan has - no answer.
I have at no point said volunteers are a risk.

Is this a joke.

Where are the volunteers coming from - The Parents - read the last 15 pages!

I asked what benefit this plan has -NONE - IT HAS NONE - which is why I am against it!!!!!

@LolaSmiles - If none of your staff have ever been told to not put themselves in a situation when you're alone with them then I do not believe you work in a school.

I wanted to use tes as this is something everyone is familiar with and I would not be accused of putting up a fake site.

Oh POPPI89

My original longer question was how many parents does the school think are available to volunteer? Given the number who have jobs they are still doing, health issues, other children not in school and any other reasons that they are unavailable to volunteer.

Because if there aren’t enough of them to make the numbers work with the 3 times in a month restriction this “plan” is dead in the water.

@LolaSmiles - someone who also works in a school has already said they have been advised of this too in all the schools they've worked in so it is not just me.

When did I say you must never be alone - I said you are advised to avoid it.

Again people are re-writing what I've actually said. This is ridiculous!

Staff aren't advised not to be alone!

Staff are trained in safeguarding and exercise their professional judgement on the situation in front of them.

For example, all these situations could involve a student seeking to speak to a member of staff alone:

• vulnerable child with a history of disclosing talking to their head of year or form tutor
• a ks3 student coming to speak to a teacher about homework at lunch
• a GCSE student wanting some help with revision after school
• a 1-1 with a child who has reported bullying and a member of staff needs to take a statement
• a student sees a teacher at break about an upcoming trip because they need another letter

You're saying staff are advised not to be alone. I'm saying that staff use professional judgement.

So in this plan, some children would be taught by qualified teachers, and others would put in a room with the school office staff and a parent?
How is that fair?
And how will the office staff get their jobs done? Who would be coordinating all these volunteers if the office staff were sitting in a classroom with children?

And I guarantee if you put me in a classroom with 15 teenagers, I would not be able to keep control, or help them with their work, or sort out any discipline issues. Do you not think many children would take advantage of the inexperienced people in the room and just chat/ muck around? Or would those ones be put with the teachers?
So the better behaved children would lose out on learning cos they didn't have a teacher there?

What's the point of all this? If children are not learning, let them stay at home. If it's for childcare to help parents get back to work, most (not all) secondary children can be left on their own for the day, so parents could go to work.
So perhaps just years 7 and 8 would need to be supervised during the day. In which case, there will probably be enough teachers to teach them properly.

If none of your staff have ever been told to not put themselves in a situation when you're alone with them then I do not believe you work in a school.
Cross posted.
I've just shared a range of examples where a member of staff may be alone.
How they are handled would depend on the child, the member of staff, location of the room and proximity to other people and so on.

Are you seriously telling me that staff are routinely advised not to be alone so if a student came to a teacher's room at break to ask a question about homework, the teacher should alert a colleague before answering the question?