To think this school's plan won't work

[Poppi89]

I work in a secondary school ( not as a teacher) and we have been kept up to date by email and zoom staff meetings.

There has been a lot of talk of when we will re-open and what will happen as like most schools it was very stressful closing the school and not being prepared so they are trying to put plans in place and keep one step ahead.

Due to a lot of parents in the area wanting the school to re-open and for life to go back to 'normal' they think the government might re-open schools sooner rather than later maybe before May half term, so the school has put in place an outline of what will happen:

• School will re-open but will continue sticking to the guidelines of social distancing - as this is not possible in a school with full capacity students will be split into halves or thirds to ensure they are spaced far enough away from each other. This means that the kids will only be in 1/2 days a week.

• Due to adults spreading the virus more than children (it seems) they don't think all staff should be in each day. So will be depending on parents to do a rota system - so one qualified member of staff to 2 parents to supervise.

Does anybody else think the school would be better to remain closed if this is the case?
It seems they won't be learning much and the risk of getting the virus will still be high.

I do get that this is the best plan they have come up with to keep everyone happy. My DD is missing her friends and wouldn't mind going back to school a couple of days a week and I guess it will be easier for parents to get back to work but I would rather wait until June/July at the earliest as surely the NHS is still overwhelmed.

What do you guys think?
AIBU - thinking this isn't a good plan

I also work in a secondary (another support role). I can't imagine our school allowing parents in without a full DBS check. Parents who are dropping their child off for the keyworker hub are having to stay in the school car parking area.

I also can't imagine many parents being available for a rota. Many of the parents in my DS's year, like me, went back to work having been a SAHP during their child's primary school days. Or they worked part time and now the child is in secondary school they're working longer hours.

Or, like some of DS's friends, the child at secondary school is the eldest and there are younger siblings who will either be staying home or will be on short days so will need picking up.

It seems a bit hit and miss and very dependant on people who can't be depended on to be in every day - i.e parents who will have their own things to do if they're not working.

I get why they are suggesting it. For the same reason gp practices had hot and cold teams (the cold team were protected from face to face patient work so they could step in when hot team members went off). Pre lockdown many firms nominated key staff to work from home so they could swap in.

However, I can't see how it would work both because volunteers would need to come in so often and because managing 10 teenagers as someone with no experience is a terrifying prospect.

I would be very shocked if our school goes back before August ( Scotland ). We can not keep the children 6 ft apart, we havent got enough room for the children at the moment as it is & the already planned extension obviously can not get built at the moment. I cant see half days or x amount of days ever other week working as parents need to get back to work, after school club cant be used safely nor breakfast club.

Each school will have different but similar issues around social distancing. How they will be solved is down to individual schools, following on from whatever the government say. It is no secret that is going to mean that to start with not all pupils will be in full time, with the consensus being that year 6 in primary and year 10 and 12 will be the first in secondary schools.
The idea that the school is proposing to open with only some staff present and filling the gaps with parent volunteers seems to me to be a terribly badly thought out plan, based solely on the staff not wanting to be in more than necessary. The potential for a child protection issue is going to be high and frankly they will be there to be shot at if they go ahead with this.
There will already be a level of staff who are going to be still off because they are in a vulnerable group. From conversations with other governors I think this is averaging between 10 and 20 % of staff. Those staff will not be in school for some considerable period of time.
If we take a typical secondary school then to bring in year 10 and year 12, will be about 200 pupils in year 10 and 120 in year 12. If you work on altered social distancing stance of 1 metre not 2, then a typical classroom can hold 16 pupils. So that means 13 classes and 13 teachers in year 10 and say 8 classes and 8 teachers in year 12. Given that most secondary school timetables are quite complicated I would expect that they will be able to come up with a timetable such that 21 teachers can be present and teaching, albeit it will be probably be 6 or 7 different subjects in each teaching period. Classes do not often have more than the teacher in class, so why do they need parent helpers, who cannot be anymore than childcare with the greatest of respect to the volunteers.

I find it hard to imagine that the majority of secondary school teachers aren't "confident enough" to handle a class of kids and require a parent helper to maintain discipline.

They won't be talking about teachers more like admin staff who already hold a DBS but don't have any experience being in charge of the pupils.

I do understand why they have suggested it too as many people cannot work at all now and there have been lots of people saying social distancing is going to last quite a while so re-opening the schools would give these parents the chance to go to work a couple of days a week and get the economy back on track.

I assume those on the rota would only do a couple of hours a day every couple of weeks and those who are unable due to childcare, shielding, keyworker etc won't need to do it.

If it's doable to have kids in less days but in for a day or so a week I guess it's a good thing. For the kids to have some normality back..... But it all sounds impossible doesn't it. When my child goes back I want her to be happy and not anxious. Sadly this virus has massively changed our kids lives for the foreseeable future. They won't get to experience school life how we did for ages. It is sad. I guess being prepared for anything is important. I doubt they will open before June. But I think some schools will open before summer. Perhaps staggered though.

@admission - I agree but wasn't sure if I was being unreasonable as my DD used to go to rainbows and brownies and the parents had to be on a rota and not many were DBS checked. In my school, there are also people on work experience who want to be trainee teachers etc who aren't DBS checked but they aren't allowed to be alone and have to wear a special lanyard. So it made me think actually is this a feasible plan.

They might require them to be DBS checked ( I really don't know ) but the DBS check doesn't bother me as I wouldn't want anyone alone with my DD DBS or not just in case. I just think if there's not enough staff it is a perfect excuse to say we cannot re-open yet.

I think it will have to be staggered but the problem with that is it’s not helping working parents, including teachers who are parents and would need to be in to teach. I just think it’s such a difficult situation.

@Tiredmumma89 - yes I agree. Part of me wants them all to go back to get back to normal as I know my DD is missing her friends at school but I wouldn't want them to take that risk. I just hope we get a vaccine or something soon so everyone can go back to normal.

@Italiandreams - yes I agree which is why I was shocked at the plan they were saying at first but then I thought actually what's the alternative.
I understand why people are saying why are they thinking about it now but I think they are just all stressed and trying to find some way of feeling in control of the situation.

@Poppi89

What exactly is the point of having kids in school who are not being taught by qualified teachers?

That is what I’m asking, not how the school is doing it, I’m asking what the purpose is? Why would anyone increase risk of infection if it is not necessary? Keyworkers who have no option but to use the hubs for childcare currently worry about this. What you are describing is an expansion of keyworker childcare for all children, but worse as children in one family will all get different days. To provide this you expect parents to volunteer and employers to provide paid time off to facilitate it.

Why?

Secondary kids wont be bk til a vaccine

Really?

@2ndStar - Schools are going to have to re-open as apparently the damage to the economy outweighs the health risk. Many parents are needing to go back to work, and those who WFH are struggling trying to juggle everything. And many of them are saying it would be better for the kids' mental health to re-open the schools.

At the moment mine and my DDs schools are just supervising the key workers' kids - there's no teaching. So they are saying when the school's re-open because they can't fit all of the pupils in, only half or 1/3 will go in and there will be less subject-specific teachers so basically they won't be getting a great education which is why in my OP I said I think if this is the case the school's should remain closed for longer as they won't be getting an education so what's the point.

But then again they will be getting slightly more of an education than they are now and it gives parents chance to go to work even for one day a week which will re-open shops and get the economy back on its feet etc so I can see why people think the school's should re-open but I just don't think it's feasible.

School's will definitely re-open - the date has not been set but it is almost certainly going to have to stick with social distancing measures - meaning not all pupils can go in every day. So my school is seeing how many they can fit in, can they use the halls etc to just be better prepared for when it does happen.

There is no way that schools can coordinate this to make sure all the children in a family are in school on the same days. Without this people can’t go back to work which requires them to be in work. Admittedly some will get lucky and be able to return, and alongside that a whole new admin headache for schools and employers providing evidence of whether parents can work or not.

It’s all such a mess.

Yes it is it's madness. It's such a surreal situation and I think that's why their plans are seeming so unusual but we're in such unusual times that I can kind of see where they're coming from. I honestly don't know how it will be possible without putting people at risk. I just hope they are planning for a worse-case scenario and that the government won't make the school's go back too soon.

Surely if your school does not have sufficient teachers able to return to work with even reduced numbers of children then reopening is not feasible. A rota of parents who have not been DBS checked to supervise children is just laughable

Wilmalovescake

Yet again schools show how ridiculously out of touch with the rest of the world they are

firstly its school not schools.

Secondly if you are falling for this you are so gullible its unreal.

2ndStar

schools would have to schedule my children to be in school on the same days so I could go to work?

Is this a statement or a question?

How is the parent:teacher ratio supposed to work?
1 qualified teacher to 2 parents as in 3 adults per class? Or 1 QT teaching one class, 1 parent leading another? Surely each class would need a QT?

I agree with the others though that it's not feasible in any way. DBS checks, parents being available with work commitments/other children, schemes of work..

FrippEnos

It’s questioning the statement that this plan allows people to go to work when no mention has been made of scheduling multiple children in a family for the same days or cross school scheduling for families with children in different schools.

Schools have been told they will have several weeks' notice before they can re-open, so this will not happen before May half term.

Our school leaders are expecting 25 per cent attendance at best.

You mention parents going back to work one day a week? Who works in a job one day a week?
Whose employer will sanction going back one day a week only?

What about tranaportation for children who can't walk to school?
Some children rely on private bus companies that aren't currently operating - they can live miles away (especially grammars for example).

There are so many questions and I think we are looking to run before we can walk.

Schools are scenario planning for phased returns. However, everything is dependent on what the government announces.

Even if they manage to implement social distancing in school (which I think is nigh on impossible) how do they ensure social distancing on public transport to get there?

We live rurally and my kids get on a jam packed double decker bus with loads of other kids (and adults) to and from school (not a privately run bus, just a regular bus). Even if only 25% of kids got in the bus there's no way the children would be 2m apart.

imatter we are the same. One of mine gets a normal, rammed public bus in one of the hardest hit, densely populated places.

With a bus of commuters and school kids, I don't see how it can work either.