That day nursery can be as good as school nursery ?

[Sootyandsweep2019]

Pregnant and stressed. Will need to, ( financially), return to work 3 days a week when baby is 5-6 months old.

Looking at childcare options and, pre-lockdown, found what I thought was an absolutely lovely day nursery that takes babies 3 months to four years.

Staff seemed lovely, lovely outdoor play area, pets/ farmyard animals,regular trips out, home cooked / nutritious meals , literally everything you could want.

Naively I also felt for a baby that I would prefer a nursery over a childminder , as there are people around, ( in case anything untoward happened), and everyone coming into the setting is DBS checked. I also assumed that , ( if settled ), baby would stay there until reception as they follow eyfs. However, I've just spoken to my sister , ( who works in a school), and she has told me in no uncertain terms :

-Day nurseries are full of bored 17 year old staff who don't care.

• They're horrible places which are lonely and boring for children.

-School nurseries are soooo much better, shge doesn't know anybody who would keep their child in a day nursery over a school nursery.

Have i got everything wrong ? Genuinely feel quite stressed and upset

It depends on what you are assessing them for.

In terms of pre-reception education in the year before starting school, in many cases I would prefer the school nursery because it is led by a qualified teacher and creates a rather different atmosphere to a day nursery where the children spend all day. But that's me valuing a teacher-led approach rather than a childcare approach for the year before school.

In terms of full time actual personal care, a school nursery cannot provide this.

For younger children and babies, a school nursery isn't available.

If you want a school pre-school but also need full time care, one option is to have a childminder who takes the child to the school nursery and picks up after the session. Often these will allow you to pay a half-rate for the hours the child is at the school nursery.

Personally, I am very pro GOOD childminders. And I know they can be variable. But I think a home setting is particularly nice for very little ones and they often get to do things like go the shops and go to the library,morning the school -run or activities a parent would take them to. It's more of a normal rather than institutionalised time. They are often pretty flexible and many have a back-up for any rare time they can't be available (which is a key reason why many people go for a nursery instead of childminder)

A good childminder might be around for many years and be useful when school starts too, whereas nurseries although always there, might see changing staff.

And as mentioned above, a childminder can enable the full time working parent to still access a school nursery. They are often a bit cheaper too.

So Op, think about the different stages of your little-one from baby to 4 year old about to go to school and what you want and works for you and you family.

I’m a senior in a private nursery baby room and couldn’t be more focused on the wellbeing of my babies. They are so loved. If they need rocking and singing to sleep or want to sleep on me.....I do it. I spend hours setting up learning plans that appeal to them and researching learning approaches that will stimulate their development and appeal to schemas. I just can’t see it happening in a robotic school environment.

What I have learned is a setting is only as good as its staff. Go and look round every single one that you can get to and go with your gut.

I didn’t even know there was such a thing as ‘school nursery’ before the pre-school (3) age

My twins went to day nursery from 8 months, then pre-school at a school and then moved from there to another school for Reception. In terms of socialisation and confidence or whatever they’re no different to my third son who only went into pre-school.

We considered childminder btw but there wasn’t one available locally with space, and we liked the nursery a lot. They’re 11 now and don’t remember anything about it.

You’re basing your opinion on having viewed a particular setting. She’s basing her opinion on generalisations and stereotypes.

The important thing is that you’re happy with the childcare setting you’re sending your child to, not what anyone else thinks of it. And certainly not sweeping generalisations most likely made by someone insecure in their own choice of childcare.

My kids are (were) at a private day nursery.
They are cares for just like they are at home, they are loved, nourished, educated and entertained between 7am and 5pm each day they attend.
The staff at ours vary in age so some who are doing apprenticeships/college, others who are Mums/Dads themselves (late 20s/30s) and couple who are older. I feel that provides a mass of experience, and I have noticed that they all have an amazing rapport with the kids.

My eldest did started at 9mths and is just in his pre school year there, the youngest started a little later due to a longer mat leave and we may move him to school nursery at 3....purely as we will have one in the school and it will make pick ups and drop offs easier for us, if not he will stay until school reception.

Best advice I can give is once you are able to, go visit a few different settings, a lot will let you and even encourage to attend without notice after your initial planned visit, ours asked us to drop in at any point (all secure at entrance) to in effect see them in action.

Maybe also look at childminders too and school nurseries, get a feel for what is right for you and your child.

We used a childminder for DD from 1-3yrs. She was already doing wraparound for my DSDs so it was great for DD to have her sisters around. But even without that, we preferred to more home-like setting while DD was so little. She went to a private nursery for 1 day a week that our childminder didn't work. At 3 she went to that nursery full time. A school nursery simply wouldn't have worked for our working hours and she had the consistency of being with children and staff she already knew. Do what works for you, not your sister!

id choose a day nursery every time.

A smaller one would be better, they give the kids lots to do,lots of attention and they follow a strict curriculum

Responding to the outrage at my opinion that nurseries aren't ideal for very young children:

I have no doubt that there are excellent staff who care deeply and have strong bonds with the children and in my experience this can work really well for older preschoolers.

But a 1:4 ratio that happens in nurseries, at best, is just not ideal for babies! Childminders are allowed I think 1 child under a year for a reason. I can't see how you can meet the needs of 4 babies simultaneously with truly responsive care.

It's not absolute rubbish. There is strong evidence supported by attachment theory that supports the idea that young babies needs are very difficult to meet in these settings.

@Babamamananarama it's a 1:3 ratio for children under 2

I'm sure there are some great childminders out there but unfortunately the vast majority that I see at toddler groups etc completely ignore their charges the whole time they are there.

My experience with our day nursery is completely different, but I also know it varies a lot from one to another. We spent some time visiting several before deciding where to send out little one.

The one he goes to is absolutely amazing (it's Montessori). He loves it there and we really like the staff, the environment, the learning opportunities. In fact we can't wait for it to re-open!

Just to comment on what your sister said:

• no one member of the staff is that young. Mostly are in their 20s, with several much older. But all qualified and enthusiastic. We didn't like one of the nurseries we visited exactly for that reason, as when we walked in the staff wasn't smiling and seemed so bored! But just one out of 6 was giving that impression.
• no bored or lonely children. There are lots of activities and they are all well engaged and cared for. For instance: the order of the toys is changed regularly, new toys appears, they rotate, new activities are invented every week, they go out in the garden twice a day, they sing, they play freely.... When I collect my son he's always super engrossed in some sort of game and very often busy interacting with other children his age. And most of the kids from the other rooms know him and me too! I am often welcomed with a lots of little smiles and children shouting 'helloooo xxx's mum! He is playing yz in the other room' etc. So lovely.

His progresses are tracked and communicated in writing and via an app every month, but the staff tells me a lot about it every day. Even now that we are in lockdown we keep talking to each other and they ask how he's doing.

• sorry no idea about how a school nursery would be different

My friend used both. So day nursery from the baby stage until the September after her DD turned 3.

As my friend worked full time but did some long days and some short days, she could utilise the pre-school for 2 days as they only covered 8.45 until 3pm ish. Usually you would have another morning or afternoon session (5 sessions per week) but couldn't cover picking her DD up so the other 3 days were spent back at her day nursery.

She did this so that her DD could make friends with children who would be starting school with her.

All 17 years old are not bored stupid, what a ridiculous thing for your sister to say. Some 30 year olds might be bored stupid. Every nursery is different. I used 2 different ones with Ds1 and loved them, the staff, the setting etc.

@Babamamananarama the ratio for under twos is 1:3. In reality, this ends up being 1:1 most of the time as generally each baby has a different sleep pattern and we often have several asleep at once. We are always over ratio as well, meaning a normal ratio of 1:2 in our baby room. No one in their right minds would have a 1:4 ratio at that age. We wouldn't be allowed to open if we did.

A 1:4 ratio is appropriate for two to three year olds. They are learning to socialise with their peers and often get overwhelmed when there are a lot of staff members in the room. That being said, most private nurseries I know in our area operate on a 1:3 ratio because toddlers are hard work!

My daughter has been in private day nursery since 8m old, she loves it! All the staff are lovely, she's never been ignored or left out, if she's been upset there is always someone there to comfort her, she has certainly never been lonely or bored. They make time for all the children, always there to help when needed
My reason for not going with a childminder is they usually close if the minder is sick or on holiday (unless have another carer employed), nursery is always open

My sons school nursery is definitely not bleak they have a very enriched Curriculum including veggie patches and chickens so I beg to differ oh and lots of grass and muds kitchens etc. I suppose it depends where you go.

My son is (normally) at a lovely day nursery. Most of the staff have been there 5+ years, the younger ones seem engaged and very sweet, and like a pp I did a little cry when we visited because it was so exactly what I wanted for him. He absolutely thrived there and as a very busy child, was clearly a bit bored at home. I can't bloody wait for him to go back!

The school nursery near us is only morning and afternoon sessions, no lunchtime provision, so useless for working parents.

Oh and one of the things I most love about it is that they're outside every day, all weather. They have woods at the back of the grounds that the older children can play in, and follow a Forest School ethos. It's always cheerful, all the staff know the kids names even when they've just started, and show an interest in how they're doing.

YANBU..... Your sister is with her ridiculous sweeping and generalised statement. Like any organisation there will be good and bad examples. You need to look at a few different nurseries and get a feel for the one that suits you. We went to one a friend recommended and did not like it at all. Went to another one and from the moment we walked in we had 'that feeling'. Our day private nursery is amazing. All of my children have attended with another starting in September. Yes there are younger members of staff but they have rigorous training programmes and a strong manager which means that they are contributing to the excellent provision at the setting. None of mine had problems starting school and in fact they settled much better than friends children who had a childminder who had fewer children in the care setting (nothing wrong with a childminder either... We chose a nursery because we couldn't risk time off work if childminder was ill.)

There is strong evidence supported by attachment theory that supports the idea that young babies needs are very difficult to meet in these settings.

There isn’t strong evidence at all.

There are also hundreds of thousands of children who have been through nurseries over the decades and have grown up to become very capable adults.

The best nursery in our area is a day nursery. Plus school nurseries dont have the hours I needed. DD was there 7.30 till 6pm.

Not to mention the fact the day nursery has a farm, woodland, forest school and its on KS1 teacher and classroom in the preschool room.

DD thrived there and you could tell the ones that went there on the first day at school. The others soon caught up but there was a difference.

Round our way the private day nurseries are way better than the school nurseries. I think that is because the school nurseries have to operate on an absolute shoe-string as they only get the basic funding for 15 or 30 hours per week and are only open 30 hours per week term time only anyway and mostly don't charge much in the way of extras, so every penny has to be scrimped. The private nurseries are generally open 8am to 6pm 51 weeks per year and so the woefully inadequate "free childcare" funding only makes up a fairly small fraction of their overall income, and they can charge the actual cost of providing the service for the rest of the time, so in my experience they seem to have more resources, and be better able to provide a rich and enjoyable experience for the children.

Your sister has probably come across one or two bad ones, but that isn't universally indicative and she is being very unreasonable to generalise. There are almost certainly some pretty terrible school nurseries near to her which she just hasn't had experience of.

You are both wrong.

Nurseries aren't safer than a childminder, who's setting & practised is assessed in all areas (including safety) by Ofsted, exactly as day nurseries are.

Nurseries vary as much as childminders. Some will have teenage staff, others won't. There are excellent CMs and poor ones.

It's about personal preferences - I wanted a home/family environment and children of mixed ages and no more than a small group in the setting, and I wanted my child taken out on family daily activities like the library, local playgroup and supermarket. So i chose a childminder.

If you want more paperwork & feedback on EYFS learning objectives, more "educational" activities, bigger groups, purpose built facilities and furniture, you may prefer a day nursery.

They are different types of care.

My children went to a private day nursery from 8 months until school age. It was fantastic, caring and far more academic than any of the school settings locally. Also a lot of the "school nurseries" near me are often affiliated but in reality nothing to do with the actual school. The pre schools within private day nurseries often have staff with qualified teacher status, they may also have a maths specialist or similar. Most will have dedicated pre school rooms and will follow the EYFS if Ofsted registered.
Not only that the hours at a private nursery are much more suitable for working parents than a school nursery. Your sister is talking rubbish.

I'm sure there are some great childminders out there but unfortunately the vast majority that I see at toddler groups etc completely ignore their charges the whole time they are there

Within reason I think that’s great and what I’ve always done with mine at toddler groups....and what I’d want my cm to do.

I can’t bear seeing 2 year olds hovered over every second with the parent doing and saying everything for them - and the child learns nothing about how to act socially.

Mine were always watched but left to get on with it.