That day nursery can be as good as school nursery ?

[Sootyandsweep2019]

Pregnant and stressed. Will need to, ( financially), return to work 3 days a week when baby is 5-6 months old.

Looking at childcare options and, pre-lockdown, found what I thought was an absolutely lovely day nursery that takes babies 3 months to four years.

Staff seemed lovely, lovely outdoor play area, pets/ farmyard animals,regular trips out, home cooked / nutritious meals , literally everything you could want.

Naively I also felt for a baby that I would prefer a nursery over a childminder , as there are people around, ( in case anything untoward happened), and everyone coming into the setting is DBS checked. I also assumed that , ( if settled ), baby would stay there until reception as they follow eyfs. However, I've just spoken to my sister , ( who works in a school), and she has told me in no uncertain terms :

-Day nurseries are full of bored 17 year old staff who don't care.

• They're horrible places which are lonely and boring for children.

-School nurseries are soooo much better, shge doesn't know anybody who would keep their child in a day nursery over a school nursery.

Have i got everything wrong ? Genuinely feel quite stressed and upset

Your sister is very unreasonable. You can't make blanket statements about childcare before school. Day nurseries, school nurseries, pre-schools, childminders and staying with a carer all have their pros and cons and are dependent on the child's needs. Institutions obviously vary by quality too.

Where I live there are no school nurseries. I'd never heard of such a thing before I moved here, but there you are. And the children in DC2's school, who'd all been to private nursery/childcare were as bright and engaged as the ones in DC1's class, who'd all been to the school nursery.
As you seem to have a decent set of options, I'd agree with Poppinjay and say visit, visit, visit.

Sorry to say it but I agree with your sister.

Thanks , the thread has provided some reassurance.

Really, really like the people who run this particular day nursery, and whilst we can review the situation at the time, I personally think five days a week school nursery would be a hassle sorting out wrap around childcare, and would ruin my day off with LO.

Tbh ,y sister loudly voices her opinions about what she disagrees with

And just to add I don't see anything wrong in (non bored), teenage staff at all.

Actually , maybe somebody can answer this question for me r.e cm's.

If you are a CM, do your friends who visit the home regularly need a DBs check . My mum's best friend is a childminder and my mum , ( who is lovely with kids but has no dbs as not needed for her work), is a very frequent visitor.

I worry about sending to a cm where costing friends / family might not be as nice if that makes sense

The thing with nurseries is that if you don't like them after joining then you can switch to another one. Unless your sister knows the specific nursery that you're considering definitely take her advice with a pinch of salt. Is she older than you with a history of "knowing better" by any chance ?

Headbangersandmash...younger but with a history of always knowing better.

She doesn't know any of the nurseries involved as we live in different towns.

The main thing to remember is 'school' nursery' will usually only be an option from the September after your child has turned 3. You don't need to be worrying about that now. Essentially you just have to decide on daycare nursery vs child minder (or nanny !). Worry about school in a couple of years.

This is obviously hugely dependent on the nursery in question but in my particular location your sister would be right. In general, school nurseries will usually have qualified teachers and early years professionals. They could have highly qualified staff in a day nursery but they often don’t. Personally we made the decision to move to a school nursery but if you feel they are well settled and staff are good then don’t. Regardless, so much will change between then and now. You don’t have to make your choices about your baby factoring in what your child will need at 4 years old.

School nurseries only take kids from 3 here. They also only open during term time, and they don’t always do wraparound care. It’s morning or afternoon sessions. Useless for a working parent.

Our private nursery was staffed by fabulous women ranging in age from 17 to 60. Every one of them were brilliant, the younger ones were working towards qualifications. It’s a fallacy to suggest a bored teenager thinks “I know, I’ll go get a job surrounded by screaming babies and tantrumming toddlers” They are there because they want to work with children.

I work in an Oustanding Montessori day nursery. We are all level 6, so have degrees in Early Years. The vast majority of us are in our thirties or late twenties, no bored teenagers here. Please don't tar all day nurseries with the same brush. Some are bad, some are very, very good. When looking around at nurseries, the best indicators of quality are to look for a very low staff turnover, a child centered ethos and staff who visibly love the children and their jobs. You'll want to find somewhere that takes the children's development and education seriously, but on the children's terms, when they're ready. Personally I'd avoid nurseries that place an emphasis on teaching phonics etc. Young children need to learn through play with staff who are skilled at recognising their needs/interests and extending their learning through these.

Used private nurseries for mine. You just have to chose well. The staff at ours absolutely love the kids, it’s palpable any time you’re there - which is one of the reasons I chose it. And the preschool part far outstrips any school nursery I know - my daughter entered reception streets ahead of her peers, and granted she is bright, but it was the private nursery who had taught her it all!

Based on my own experience as a nursery teacher & mum, your sister is right.
This is a not a popular view point & it is a generalisation I know, but the majority of stand alone nursery schools and nurseries attached to schools deliver a better quality of 3/4 yr old provision. Obviously not true in all cases and there are disadvantages to school nurseries such as the lack of flexibility around start and finish times school hols etc.
Also, lots of children start off in a private nursery and transfer to a school nursery. Doesn't have to be exclusively one or the other. My DS did this and settled really well - though now they're closed & I fear sadly he may end up never going back!

The main difference (around here) is that the school nursery will have a qualified early years teacher overseeing the nursery, but the private nurseries usually do not have this. Mine all went to private day nursery which was lovely and staffed with experienced care providers who were very involved and it was great for their socialisation and learning through play and activities, much like what you would provide at home. However as they got into that last year age 3-4 before reception, I opted to put them into school nursery for part of their hours, so they had a mix of both. I did this just to get them into the swing of classroom life, and honestly I really could tell the difference in their learning, they were being taught along the same lines as reception in preparation (starting to blend words in reading, letter forming, pencil control etc.) So I think its just a slightly more prep for school type environment.
If you get the right day nursery I dont think there'd be much difference between their day to day provision for the really very early years though. A homely caring environment is what you want and what you'll probably get with experienced caring staff.

A 'school nursery' isn't a nursery it's a pre school unless it's part of a private school set up. A pp mentioned a guaranteed place in reception from the nursery which could only be the case in a private school setting. Preschools even if on the same site as schools were separated quite a few years ago and having a place at the pre school has no baring on getting a place in the school. If you are lucky enough to have a 'linked pre school and school' in your area, get a place in the pre school and then in the school i'm sure it makes settling into reception easier but for the vast majority of the UK that won't be the case.

I had 2 in private nurseries- like anything in life what suits one child or parent won't suit another. My DS, once he reached the pre school room would arrive at 7.30am for breakfast. Go outside as soon as possible afterwards. Come in for snack and meals but spend all day 3 days a week playing with his friends outside in the fresh air. Came home filthy but happy. I had to work and a day nursery open from 7.30am to 6.30pm was the simplest solution. Once DS went to school I looked for a different solution for my DD as having her in a day nursery all day was fine but I then had school hours and term time only to contend with for my son. Needs change, settings change. Go with what works for you and your circumstances.

They all follow the same curriculum or certainly that's the case in Scotland. Preschool nurseries are great but the wrap around care is a complete faff. Most kids that I know who have used them have relied on Grandparents, Parents working in a shift pattern, or a childminder.

Sometimes school prefer to teach their own way than unpick what preschool and nursery have already taught. And really they are in primary for 7 years, what happens before then shouldn't make any difference to the end result.

My kids day nursery was fab.
All the staff were on the mature side, but I don't think that necessarily means anything.
They gave my kids an excellent early years education, and prepared them well for school.
They did not expect them to be school kids. No uniform etc.
They treated them as small children and gave the individual support they needed. And worked closely with the schools that the children moved on to.

The main problem I see with any nursery is that you have zero control over who’s actually looking after your child. It’s for this reason that I’d never use one and chose a CM when we needed childcare.

Just because when you view it’s staffed with experienced 35 year olds doesn’t mean in three months time your child won’t be being looked after by a bored, inexperienced school leaver. It’s not a risk I’d take.

This isnt always true.

I worked in a nursery and it was the top nursery in a very big area in SW London, we had a year waiting list and parents would put their names down before they was even pregnant.

Have you checked the nurseries ofsted?
Is there a local facebook group in the area of the nursery, which you could join and ask other parents their thoughts of the nursery and get a feel for it

Younger staff aren't always bad anyway. My daughter's went to a lovely nursery where most of the staff were in their late teens to early twenties and they flourished there, developed so much confidence.
Besides all nurseries have to have qualified staff so it won't be anything like your sister says.
Did the children seem happy and busy?.It's a good indicater. Children don't fake being happy.
I know a lot of parents switch to school nursery when they are about 3 so children get to know each other before they start school but we didn't have that option and our children were just as happy.

It depends on the nursery. If you're happy with it, then it's fine, just keep an eye out for any changes. I am a childminder and children come to me from babies to starting school and beyond. If you've found somewhere that seems right to you, then go for it.

Our eldest child went to a school nursery. It’s wasn’t terrible but it wasn’t great. It was very high pressured for a three year old. The younger went to a Montessori day nursery. He’s loved it. The staff are great and he’s learned far more at nursery than the older one (he can add, subtract, DP ten times tables, knows units/tens/hundreds, can read a bit, knows all of his phonics sounds). But of course there are some absolutely crap nurseries out there. I think that there’s no point in making generalisations.

Perhaps you could eventually use both OP? That's what we've done for both our DCs as it allowed us to split our funded hours allowance across two settings (neither would allow the full 30hrs to be used solely with them). I have found them to balance and complement each other.
The day nursery is like the one you describe: attached to an open farm which the kids visit daily. Its outdoor space is fabulous, they do lots of messy activities, good food, etc. DCs always came out incredibly grubby in a way that looked like they'd had a very creative busy day rolling around in the mud exploring.
The school preschool got the DCs used to a more formal environment and they received more formal teaching in phonics and numeracy. The preschool is attached to the primary they attend/will attend in Sept, and the preschoolers are often in the main school involved in wider school life (special assemblies, pe in the hall, lunch with reception children). It makes for a smooth transition to reception, but lacks the same amount of freedom to explore.

It really isn't as simple as school nursery = good, day nursery = bad. There are no school nurseries my way so my DDs went to private day nursery. It was an amazing place. They came out ready for school and already ahead in terms of literacy etc. - nursery were brilliant about offering differentiation and had staff members trained in teaching phonics for those kids who showed an interest early. It wasn't pushed, it was offered. They were never bored, they loved it.

There are great and bad nurseries, childminders, nannies etc. I have personally preferred nursery but if I was doing full time, I’d look at a combo of nursery and a nanny. Mine has loved nursery, really adored it. made wonderful friends etc but I wouldn’t have wanted her there full times. I personally wouldn’t have gone for a school nursery. I think 3 year olds are so little and often the ratios are too high in school nurseries for my liking and there seems to be a lot more rigidity re structure.

I didn’t go for a childminder as I’ve seen some lazy ones out and about and I didn’t want to take the risk of sickness . A great childminder would be a good option for many though.