Money/future

[worriedwifeandexpectantmother]

Sorry in advance for the long post?

So I need some advice. I'm 27 married for almost 2 years but have been with DH for almost 13 years. We're expecting our first child together in the winter.

We got into an argument following a conversation about affordability. My view point was people live within their means I.e someone can comfortably love off £1600 per month some people can live off £2k etc...

I wouldn't say I have a well off job. But if I put in the hours which I have been (due to saving for a house) I come out with decent money. And from that after bills and expenses and savings I'm still able to have spending money at the end of the month. If I didn't put the extra work in I would still be able to cover my bills and expenses but I would have to cut back on my savings each month. I aim to save a minimum of £1k a month.

I grew up with my parents teaching me the value of money and that I should save for a rainy day, just in case the worst happens. I stand by this, just look at the current crisis we're currently facing. My DH on the other hand didn't have much of an upbringing and doesn't understand about saving. Each month I have to ask him for money to contribute for our deposit. Before this, it was money for our wedding, before that money for our holiday. Before that money for our house that we had to put down 6 months rent.
I try to highlight to him how important it is to have a back up plan or emergency fund just in case.

I asked him if god forbid I was to die tomorrow, how would he pay for my funeral? How would he manage the house and bills? (Because I handle the financials.) should I be asking him each month for a contribution? His answer was he'd use the money I had saved. I asked him what if I hadn't save any money. How would you pay for my funeral? He said he'd get the money. From where? People! And he would pay back when he can.

I said to him you can't ask people for money. This was the point I'm trying to explain to him that he shouldn't be going to other people to help him out, when he should aim to have an emergency fund.

He totally shut down. He said that I make him feel worthless. Which I wasn't trying to. I was trying to let him know how I feel and that I'm worried that he wouldn't be able to manage. I was putting off having children just yet until I knew he had sorted himself out. I just said to him I don't think he'd be able to cope. He stopped talking. Wouldn't say anything else.

DH has been really excited since we found out that we're expecting me on the other hand was shocked as I wasn't expecting this to happen so soon. I'm not disappointed. I've just got a lot of fears and anxiety because I don't think we as a couple are ready.

AIBU for pointing this out to him?
AIBU for having worries and concerns?
AIBU that his response wasn't appropriate?

YANBU his lack of financial awareness is shocking

He is a bit pitiful. On the other hand.....

In the current crisis it appears that some very large businesses do not have a sufficient buffer to see them through this and expect us to bail them out just like last time.

Maybe he is a bit of a financial genius too like a Richard Branson and all the rest of them. He should go far.

We have no idea of his income and what expenses he covers, so how can we tell you if he should be saving more? (I’m not suggesting you broadcast this information but clearly it’s not the case that everyone who isn’t saving £1k per month is a spendthrift.). Yanbu that it’s sensible to save, but I think yabu to interrogate him about how he would pay for your funeral- a very emotive topic. Apart from anything else, he’d surely inherit your money and be able to use that.

Generally, if you want the people to improve in a certain area, telling them they are shit is not the best way. Does he spend money unnnecessarily? Are there areas he can cut back on? Can you help him make a plan?

Also it seems like he is making a contribution to the house savings each month? It’s just that you have to ask him for it? Tbh if he is paying his way and contributing to savings, it could be worse. Are things equal otherwise- ie does he contribute to housework etc?

Also my DH and I pay our earnings into a joint account and pay ourselves an allowance from this. Could that be a solution?

You've been with him 13 years and only just realised this?

@maa1992 this is all was trying to highlight to him.

@Iamamoleinahole I don't want to sound harsh but his upbringing wasn't the best his family would have the bailiffs knocking on their door every other day. I'm not saying his stupid. Far from that because he is a nice genuine person and I do love him dearly.

@minettechatouette I understand what your saying. To give more of a background. I'm the main breadwinner of the family. Don't get me wrong I don't expect him to match what I save, as it's not realistic. The topic of a funeral is emotive but it's reality. We're not going to live forever and that's a fact. It's a horrendous thing to think about but I'm a realist. Now that I'm expecting I'm thinking about if I was to die. Would my child be able to be looked after? I'm in the process of seeking a solicitor in order to have a will drawn up. Taking out life insurance also as a safety for my family. I want to make sure that my family will be okay if I wasn't to be around. AIBU for asking DH for his expectations and views to be similar. Or even accept my view point and understand?

@PinkDramaLlama nope it's always been a problem. I've always said that finance would be a problem in our relationship. Even when the roles were reversed. When he worked and I didn't have a secure job he was the same and I was still trying to save even in my circumstances.

@minettechatouette I have to ask, I don't always receive anything.

@minettechatouette we don't have a joint account for this very same reason. I don't know his expenses. He transfers me his half of rent and bills. What's left of his money is in his account that pays for his car insurance and other things etc... I couldn't tell you how much money he has at the end of the month. Plus he owes money to family that I don't think he's paid back either.

I think it’s sensible to have a will and life insurance. I don’t understand your point about the funeral- he would pay this from your savings? Of course you want your child to be looked after if you die - but is he actually overspending or does he not earn much? I mean yanbu if he is frittering his earnings away on rubbish, but yabu if he is spending similar amounts to you. I think yabu to tell him he wouldn’t cope if you died. It’s not a nice thing to say, and how can he respond?

Just saw your last update- do you know how much he earns? If you don’t know how much his expenses are how do you know if he should be saving more?

You sound like you have a point, but patronising him by asking him how he would pay for a funeral isn’t the right way to get it across. And to be fair to him, speaking from experience, if you did drop dead tomorrow the government would give him £2000 and people would offer to have a whip round.

@minettechatouette I know what his yearly salary is. I know how much he earns in the last tax year. Which I think is a decent amount. Objectively, he could save a small amount.

My point about the funeral is I'm concerned that his awareness of finances are shocking. I don't think he understands the reality of things, the cost of things what should you do in a financial emergency etc... not having to rely upon other people to bail you out because you'll end up in a cycle of owing money to people and not being financially independent.

@NailsNeedDoing I used the funeral as an example of worst case scenario. It's harsh yes I understand that and not many people are responsive to that. But I used it more of a shock to say this is real this could happen.

You’ve been together 13 years and you basically told him if you die you don’t think he’d look after the child he’s really excited about and you are surprised he’s not talking?

You say you are the main breadwinner, but also that he transfers his half of the bills. If you earn considerably more (which use of the breadwinner phrase suggests), but split the bills 50/50 then he’s obviously not going to save as much as you do.

If you ask him for money for the deposit savings every month surely that makes them joint savings?

You’ve criticised his money handling, but don’t actually know what he spends his money on.

Sometimes it’s not what you ask, but how you ask it and if you had the same patronising tone to him as you’ve got talking about him I’m not surprised he’s annoyed

I am thinking along same lines as minette.

You are obviously the expert when it comes to financials. You can’t teach him how to be financially aware and literate by just peppering him with how or what if questions and then going “wrong!” That is telling him he is shit at it and would make anyone feel worthless and stupid.

What I would do is sit down and show him how to do budgeting, How to set savings goals. How to live within ones means. Have regular meetings the two of you to go over your finances. Show him by doing it together. Give him space to ask you questions and bounce ideas.

I don’t know. It is obviously good to save but I think telling him he wouldn’t be able to cope if you were dead is likely to make him feel worthless. And if you earn more than him, but he contributes half of rent and bills, is it possible he has the same spending money on extras as you but just saves less as he is a lower earner?

I too think the funeral shock tactic was poorly chosen. I happen to think each person is responsible for ensuring there is money for their own funeral. I would never expect my DH or children to have to pay for my funeral.

Death isn’t the worst case scenario anyway. Permanently disabled is worst case. No life insurance pay out there!

I think a good point was made that you might not be splitting costs fairly if you earn more but he’s paying 50% of all bills.

*worst case from a financial aspect only. I have not worded that very well.

@lyralalala I know what I said to him was harsh. I'm not denying this. Like I said in previous reply's. I'm trying to be realistic how can I make sure that my family will be okay if anything was to happen. Such a death, loss of job, illness. I used funeral because it's the most shocking of examples. I 100% know that not many people will agree with the approach that I took. As it's a horrible thought.

I agree that everyone should be responsible for their own funeral. I plan to plan and pay for mine whilst alive to save my family from the horrible pressure. But my point is what if I didn't have this way of thinking what would happen?

Again I ask for contributions, I don't always receive anything. I agree it is joint savings. I don't expect him to save as much as me as I pointed out before. That would be unrealistic.

The money for a deposit is almost save. But what I'm trying to say is. Once we've bought a house I'll be saving money into an emergency fund. If he's like to contribute to that that is his choice. But like I said it's for emergencies. I don't think he quite understands that.

OP, I am quite financially conservative and cannot feel secure unless I have a rainy day fund, running away fund, retirement fund, children's education fund etc.

In your case, with the baby coming, your concern about financial security has kicked into higher gear. It sounds like your dh and you have very different attitudes towards money. He also seems to have left the financial planning to you and therefore could not give sensible answers to your questions on the spot.

The fact that he said he felt worthless is because you hit a nerve. He knows he is weak at financial management and turned a blind eye, expecting you and others to bail him out. He does not have a financial safety net. He knows it and you called him out on it. So he was exposed. I think you knew it too.

It does not sound like he disagrees with the rainy day buffer. He is just passive about saving. So you will have to organise him.

How about setting up a standing order from his personal account to a joint savings account (that you also contribute to) every month after he gets his salary credited, which can grow over time. You will be able to sleep better. I know I will.

Why are you having a child with him when you don’t think he’s capable of being a parent?

Instead of using shock tactics why not just talk to him?

Ask him how he’s doing financially? Discuss your plans for ML for example, or paying for childcare.

No one reacts well to being spoken to like a child and no one is going to react remotely well to being told that their spouse thinks they are going to be a shit parent

If you die the chances are he’d cope. He might not cope in the way you want him too or in the way you would of he died, but he would. Because that’s what people do. They get through life however they need too.

If you were the male higher earners who took 50% of the bills from your lower earning spouse, who assumed you’d be a shit mother without his guidance and who had your tone you’d get your arse handed to you on a plate on here

Instead off patronising him and pulling apart talk to him. Like an adult. Like an equal. It’s a much better tactic than asking him questions that you are just going to say he answered wrongly

@lyralalala at no point did I say he would be a shit parent. Because in aspect of being a good person he is and I do believe he would be a good father. I just highlighted that financially he's not as clued up on things.

Over the years we've been together I have sat down with him and have tried to talk things over not just finances, if we have a problem I like to talk and understand each other's view points etc... but he would normally shut down and not speak about things. I honestly thought we got over this problem in general and moved on as we've been really good for years now.

I personally don't think gender has anything to do with it. If I was male I think my views would be the same. Again I don't expect him or anyone who earns significantly less to contribute the same it's not realistic or feasible.

@blueshoes I do agree with you my anxieties have gone into overdrive and that's 100% me reacting to my anxieties in conversations with DH.

Reflecting on it, as many who have posted said it wasn't the right approach to take. I understand their viewpoint. For me, if it was me on the receiving end of our conversation I would rather a person be straight to the point and not sugar coat things. (I know, everything isn't as simple as black or white... if that's the saying)

I hate people who bury their heads like this, especially if you have dependents, omg.
I am struggling with my DB who is a manager of a pub and he, DW and 3 DC are living rent and bill free above the pub and are on furlough.
I don't know what the future holds for pub landlords or how much he has in savings, should it all go boobed shaped, but what I do know is that he spends like a sailor on leave and borrows large sums of money from me, which I will soon no longer have.
He shuts down and loses his temper with me whenever I ask if he has a worse case scenario fund. I wouldn't care if it was just him.
I understand OP and this is only by DB, whose life choices shouldn't really affect me.

My partner sounds similar to yours, but we do have a joint bank account, I also save money from that.

I will say if you are in charge of the finances, make sure you write it all down, I don't think my partner is aware of my different savings accounts, however they are all written down on a spreadsheet (plus paper copy because I am old fashioned) I also have 2 documents one with user names and the other with passwords, so if the worst was to happen, he can access everything, also my budget sheet, because I am fairly sure he has no clue how much our water bill is a month let alone when it should be paid.

Some people just don't have the head for it and while it is important to know, I feel much better with knowing exactly how much I have to the penny in our account, where as my partner is just happy to know we can afford for him to have a drink at the local