AIBU to want the UK to follow France and SPain with regards to school openings

[whacks493]

Just read on the BBC that in France and Spain(for the majority of schools) they will start in September when the new school year starts.

This would be a massive relief to me and reduce the worry over my son catching covid-19 at school.

They should open ASAP.

It’s good for the children, who need routine, normality and peers.

It keeps vulnerable children safer and at least fed.

It enables parents to get back to work and earn money. This is not a luxury for many people but an absolute necessity.

@teqcar UK means England, didn’t you know that? Usually south of England too.

I'd hope that by September there is more known about the virus spread and development, measures to mitigate it including progress on the practicalities of contact tracing. It's not a magic panacea of normality, but it is a time of fresh start and new cohorts.

I don't expect anything this half term. Possibly some return for targeted year groups (particularly y6, y10 and y12) to allow for secondary transition and continuation of exam courses during term 6. (England). I'd be suŕprised if my y4 and y2 return for anything more than a few days as closure to this school year due to the constraints of any attempts at social distancing. My concern as a parent (particularly for a child with ASD) is that instability can be very damaging and for me that is a greater concern than the virus. After spending much of February and March showing signs of anxiety (tummy aches, hair chewing) I curently have a happy child and churning him in and out of school that doesn't follow normal expectations and routines could be quite damaging.

We are due for a review days before France returns to school, and my guess is that we will continue to gradually encourage returns to work, but observe the difference on the transmission rates observed in France and Spain, which would take us to term 6 anyway.

in some ways wouldn’t september be worse from an epidemiology point of view as it will be closer to winter flu arriving? (Assuming there isnt a vaccine by then, as Chris whitty has indicated is most likely. The other reason for delaying might be that drug combinations may have been identified - did whitty think that was Unlikely as well?)

There is concern for children for whom school is a haven, and About the effects on the educational attainment gap.

I also think there is a case for making it voluntary to start with.

If ‘keeping levels low’ means more lockdown of this level, I don’t think it will hold at population level. This is what France and Spain are balancing.

NHS gets several thousand new doctors in from 1 May with the ones graduated early and has employed thousands more students in part-time HCA roles. Lots of the retired doctors who returned have not been needed and doctors have not been massively redeployed - some have. So the NHS can probably start getting its wider services up and running in May as they have bodies lower down the training rung to support patient care.

I think we will feel compelled to start coming out the lockdown and probably have a second wave - hopefully ripe rather than second lockdown. But China’s has to lockdown some regions.

My part of the UK finishes for the Sumner at the end of June. I don't expect schools to reopen until mid August at the earliest.

As a PP said, Nicola Sturgeon has always been very clear about that. No speculation here where I live. In the UK.

Ah, cross posted bog, yes that is a good point about greater knowledge and contact ttracing. Though matt hancock has said contract tracing will be ready in weeks, i think?

Would making return voluntary solve some of the problems - not all of them obviously, including the problems for vulnerable children, which should really be being prioritised?

So this is yet another 'when will schools open thread' but started on the basis of inaccurate info about France, as a bonus? Great.

No idea what is happening in Spain, but here in France schools are opening progressively from May 11 along with other loosening of the lockdown. I get the impression they are going to start gradually and see how it goes - so trial and error. You’d imagine Britain, which is a couple of weeks behind, might see how that goes before deciding on its own course of action - though they’ve squandered every other advantage of being forewarned so perhaps I’m being over optimistic. Until there is a vaccine there is no magic date (in any case there will be pockets of anti-vaxers in the UK who will refuse to take up the vaccine).

Covid will still be here in September.

I think it might be better to keep options open than to fix a ‘not before august/september’ policy now. We know that not being in school may be damaging for some of the most vulnerable people in our society - so leaving open the possibility of an earlier return makes sense?

One of my local schools has emailed parents saying they hope to be open June 8th with year 6 going in first then a week later year 5 etc. Why would a school send an email out without having a definite reopening date!

I would like schools to open in June. This virus isn't going to go away till we have a vaccine, which is very unlikely by September so it won't change the position significantly by September. I believe that if virus transmission rates continue to fall as they are then the risks to mental health, social development and the economy (by parents struggling to be able to work) as well as the harm to more vulnerable children will outweigh the risks from the virus.

Like I said, nobody knows. They can surmise, plan, prepare and implement strategy, but they can't guarantee.

Test, Track and Trace will help minimise Rate of Infection. History shows that infection rates rise again once attention move onto other priorities.

Further, the longer we stay under restrictions the greater the impact on the economy, mental health and society. If it impacts too much the effects will be even longer lasting, perhaps permanent.

I’ve been confident all along that schools
In England and Wales will reopen on Monday 1st June - for the second half-term of this summer term.

There is no evidence that children are spreading this virus or catching it in anything more than extremely tiny numbers.

I don’t fancy another infection peak being triggered in the Autumn, when other viruses also ramp up. Surely it would be better to find out what effect schools slowly beginning to go back might have in the summer, and test out how it could work, before the other Autumn/Winter viruses start to confuse things? Not yet, of course, as there are still too many cases and not enough tests, but before September? This virus is most dangerous in autumn/winter, when everyone’s getting ill with everything going already.

They should open ASAP.

It’s good for the children, who need routine, normality and peers.

It keeps vulnerable children safer and at least fed.

It enables parents to get back to work and earn money. This is not a luxury for many people but an absolute necessity

Mascotte I agree with your ASAP - the ASAP being as soon as it is safe.

I also agree with most of your post

I can’t believe I’m saying this, but my dc is desperate to go back to school! P7 so missing that fun last term.

I'd rather childcare opened sooner rather than later, because for millions of people trying to juggle wfh and childcare is proving a living nightmare and it's hugely detrimental to both the parents and the children. BUT it could potentially be an opt-in, with children who are vulnerable, or their family are, able to not attend without any consequences.

Sorry posted too soon,

It is good for all the groups you mentioned.

But for others maybe not so good.

And what about for school staff? And their families?

One of the things that you need to consider when you talk about schools going back so the children can get back to normality is that the school may not be normal. In order for a school to function as normal you need the appropriate members of staff in. If some of those cannot return because they are still shielding then school cannot function ‘as normal’.

As an example, I work in a small rural primary school. In the last week before lockdown, of the 16 or so staff members who normally work (and I include in that the school cook, secretary, and lunchtime staff) we had six in. Of those who were off, three were off because of coughs that they or someone else in their family had, so we would expect them back. We would still be seven staff members down, all of them with underlying health issues.

We cannot function ‘as normal’ missing that many people. We don’t have enough teachers to go round, nor enough TAs, especially with the one to one support missing for the children who need it. And we may not have enough adults to safely supervise all the children at lunchtime and still get the things done in the break that we need to get done to prepare for afternoon school. We operated like that in the last week, no adults had any breaks, we were lucky in that quite a few parents chose not to send children in so we had fewer children than normal but I was, for example, looking after nursery, reception, Year 1 and Year 2 altogether so the nursery teacher could cook lunch. It was fine. But it is not normal. I’m a TA, not a teacher. We didn’t have enough teachers in for everyone.

We do need to include this in the discussion. If you think that some people will still need to shield but because children aren’t badly affected they can go back, and therefore they will go back to school exactly as it was, you need to remember that some of those shielding adults will be school staff. Not just teachers but all the other people who make a school function, and remember that school will not be normal again until those people can get back to work too.

AnnSmiley - childcare or school? An important point.

At the moment schools are childcare for key workers.
Perhaps we could extend that slightly.

I cannot see how we can hope to be 'school' for a good while yet.

But school hours are crap for childcare for most

Umnoway the school I am chair of governors at and the school my close friend is headmistress at have received no information as to when they will go back, I wonder why yours is privy to additional information?
Our school as I said has no idea, but are hoping and planning for June. They are putting additional plans in place in case it’s September. All schools should really be planning for all sorts of scenarios.

@twinkletoesimnot my feeling is that the virus isn’t going away and we can’t keep schools shut until there’s a vaccine.

And other people have to work, such as supermarket workers, warehouse staff, caters and so on. And yes been demonstrated in other nations that schools being open does not create spikes of infection.

But other than carers, all those groups can social distance.
You can't in a school. It's just not possible.