Advice with problem DS

[Henrietta75]

Sorry for the long post in advance please bear with. I’m Asian that we have to look after kids until they marry and then fly the nest.
I’ve 3 with a problem with child no.2 DS. He’s just turned 21 and the last 2-3 years he has just turned into a nightmare. Lying, manipulating and exceeding boundaries continually. DH and me have shown him nothing but love and guidance which the other two appreciate that we are always doing what’s best for them.
Last year I lost a parent and families from both sides rallied round us. DS presumably leaned on his girlfriend whearas his siblings leaned on us and each other. To our horror he walked out of the family home shortly after due to making up a bullshit story about a mates wedding but in reality wanted to spend these many days away with the girlfriend. The girlfriend complicated matters by being from another culture & religion where my community (on both sides) wouldn’t support the relationship. He was eventually coaxed to live with my in-laws and we saw him periodically. MIL frequently inferred I was a bad mother (knowing I’m grieving) ignoring the other 2 are perfectly fine.
He jacked in his full time job and started claiming benefits. Then he continues to see the girlfriend despite pleas / threats / advice that long term it won’t work. He sleeps all day and plays video games into the early hours, hardly socialises with family, refuses to learn any online courses and has no discipline. DH tried and failed to improve him but here we are months after moving back home after a row with his grandparents - nothing has changed.
Girlfriend sent a parcel yesterday and we haven’t received it. He flipped and accused us of being manipulative and liars. Swore at me and DH and stormed off. Now refuses to speak to us. With lockdown it’s bad tension in the house. DH has suggested backing off entirely and suspects once lockdown is over he’ll be off but this time neither of us will be bothered. Is this unreasonable?

Are you Sikh? If so there are specific associations that can help you as a family - you can get in touch via your Gurudwara. The less you fight the relationship the less likely he is to fight for it - I would bet her parents don’t know about him and so he’s making some serious effort to be with her. How much of that is him trying to rebel against you?

OP you need to let him go, live his own life and make his own mistakes. He is an adult and can make his own decisions.

Fedhimtotigers, I agree and it would be nice if nobody was
However I’m assuming that OP has been raised from brith with these attitudes and lives in a community where everyone else holds them to so I don’t think we should underestimate the effort and bravery needed to challenge them.
We have some very close Muslim friends really struggling with the fact that their son is gay. They love him and are really trying but everything they have been taught from a very early age tells them it’s wrong. Their Holy Book says it’s wrong, their Imam says it’s wrong, all of their families and most friends are saying it’s wrong and I’ve seen their struggle.
They support him but it’s hard and they have become cut off from people they have known since birth and apart from being ostracised there is still a part of them that thinks being Gay is wrong because that’s all they’ve ever known
Of course OP should stand up for her son, it doesn’t sound like she will sadly but I think it’s too easy for people not in her position to understand how hard it would be.

I’m Muslim and understand where she’s coming from.
I know as a Hindu she hates me and my religion but I’m ok with it. It’s not just centuries of feuding. Muslims in India are currently being blamed by the public for the Coronavirus supported by the Indian govt.
The Kashmir conflict will never go away.

There are things that are just ingrained culturally and religiously that cannot be undone sometimes.

I’m sure that Muslim girl’s family isn’t thrilled either.

OP I get it. But you just have to let him go and live his own life. I wouldn’t disown my children. Tell him you’ll be there for him but he needs to go and make his own way in the world. He doesn’t have to live with you.

We have the same set up in Muslim/Indian culture. Kids at home till
Married but I think I’ll break away from this one and encourage them to move out for my own sanity

Blimey, all those threads about how racist the UK is and how people are ashamed to be British, then we get this shit!

If anyone bleats on about how intolerant we are here, they can fucking well be referred to this thread.

Living in the midlands and we're not Hindu.

He's not taking drugs but has been to several Shisha lounges as his clothes stink of that tobacco.

He doesn't HAVE to live with us as we did our parents before we married, we thought he would until he either marries or is independent to live on his own. Every attempt to assist in finding a career or job has been rebuffed.

The girlfriend has asked him to not eat pork so he's stopped at home whilst not even in her presence - we've never said dont eat A, B, C or D and not given him anything we're not prepared to eat ourselves e.g. reconstituted meat (nothing to do with religion) in some products.

Maybe the girlfriend doesnt conform to her families way of life, I wouldnt want to alienate him by enquiring further.

I seriously doubt there isnt a mum on here that would be upset should a DC bring home a partner that they deemed "unsuitable" forget colour or creed etc. I am talking potential suitability for their child. Some would say something (like we have) and have it blown in their face whilst others bite thier lip and hope they're wrong.

I think disowning is a bit strong here, he's still our son and he'd just know that his parents are unhappy with the relationship (is this rare?!!!) - and there isnt a thing we can do about it, life carries on and may / may not marry her.

OhHuck - FUCK - YOU.

If he's going through a rebellious stage, surely by speaking (we listen!!) to what he wants. Tell us. You dont want to work - sorry we disagree. You dont want to train for a career - thats up to you. Do you have mental issues? Lets get you some help. You dont want to wake up in the morning and get into a routine of hygeine and work - thats upto you. We have fucking standards living under our roof here what mountain is this to fucking climb?

He will never be shunned, he will never be kicked out (bar some horrendous violence from him) he will be our son, just not living with us because he chooses not to.

"By controlling him and treating him like a child we have stunted his development" - Bang on the money there. The kids today have far more than we had and yet its never enough.

A few years ago DH's nephew came out as gay and was shunned immediatetely by the community and his own parents. Just by chance DC found him homeless and beaten up. We brought him into our home, got him back on his feet and lambasted by the community for our assist. Didnt give a shite. That boy is now with his partner somewhere living his life and the same will go for our son.

We'll keep our nose out of his relationships now and if he leaves then so be it. Time to let them go.

I seriously doubt there isnt a mum on here that would be upset should a DC bring home a partner that they deemed "unsuitable"

No one is saying that.

What we are saying is that your reason as to why she is unsuitable are wrong.

I seriously doubt there isnt a mum on here that would be upset should a DC bring home a partner that they deemed "unsuitable"

The big and important difference is I would never deem a partner ‘unsuitable’ on the basis of their race, religion, ethnicity, sex, gender identity, sexuality, or any other characteristic which they have no control over and which gives no indication of who they are or what they’re like.

You really need to stop digging, OP. You are rowing back on some of what you've said - but you haven't said a thing about your insane beliefs that your son's GF's people have feuded with yours for 500 years and that this is 100% their fault and that your side have never, ever done anything wrong.

And you know what, even if all of that were true, it wouldn't make a difference because she is an individual. Thinking she is unsuitable based on her faith because of something that's history would be like me saying my DDs can never have a partner who is German, because the Germans invaded the Netherlands in 1940 (and we're Dutch). It's still bollocks thinking, founded in prejudice, closing your eyes to people as individuals.

So what if your DS doesn't want to eat pork any more? There are other things he can eat. It might be a bit of a pain, but that's life. One of my DDs is vegetarian, the other can't eat wheat. Makes family meals a bit harder. And?

Love him unconditionally, support him in his relationships until you have a genuine reason (not related to prejudice and distant history) to do otherwise. It may well be that he has some mental health issues - he's the right age for it. But your attitude won't be helping him in terms of seeking support from you - you've taught him that what he will get is disapproval. You have a lot to put right.

I seriously doubt there isnt a mum on here that would be upset should a DC bring home a partner that they deemed "unsuitable"

Everyone is going to be upset about a partner who they believe to be unsuitable the question is how they decide who is unsuitable. Someone who is abusive, unkind, lazy, dishonest or doesn't make your child happy? That's a totally rational reason to object. Someone who you dislike for racist or superficial reasons? Not rational and not nice to object to this.

This is one of the many reasons I dislike religion. Your religion and your beliefs are your choice. You can't force that in your children. They aren't puppets. I know many families who are now divided due to adult children being atheists, gay or in a relationship with people not deemed acceptable. Its bullshit.

He is an adult. Who he has a relationship with is none of your buisness. Bollocks to culture, that's also bullshit. Every person deserves a chance to be happy in their own relationship within their own life. You sound extremely judgemental. No wonder hes acting the way he is. I dont blame him at all.

@Henrietta75

I’m really not surprised that your ds is behaving that way considering your disgusting opinions on other cultures. You’re living in the dark ages!
I’m afraid you are the one at fault here, when lockdown us over and leaves he’ll be better off in so many ways.

Looks like OP needs to read The Smeds and The Smoos...

You are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. Your son does not share the same religious conviction, so evidently the rift between cultures is not so deep that the next generation can't overcome it. Similarly, his girlfriend may not adhere to the parts of her religion that you disapprove of, since she is happy to date your son. He is an adult, you cannot force him to stick to the same commitment to faith, rules and grudges as you. You don't have to let him stay in your house but that is the only level of control you have over him.

Obviously being proactive about work would be a positive thing and you shouldn't have to pay his way if it's coming to that, but he's 21, it's not uncommon for people that age to play a lot of video games and he's unlikely to waste his whole life doing it. It's not a cause for concern that he will not achieve anything in life.

A reminder.
Be Kind.
And if you can't be kind... have a little go at compassion, understanding and a bit of problem solving without vilifying and judging people you've never met.
You're welcome.

@pallasathena - one assumes your toe-curlingly patronising comment is to the OP because of her judgement and vilifying of her son's girlfriend?

@Otherwearethen
Actually, it's designed to address the nasty twats such as yourself.
Cheers!

@pallasathena - ha ha! You don't take your own advice then?! What happened to 'be kind' to strangers you know nothing about? Or do you and only you get to decide to whom to be kind?! 😂

People who say "be kind" remind me of how the people who tell others they should share are usually entitled fuckers.

I for one hope your son leaves as soon as he is able too, and in the next few years his siblings see how much freedom he has to live his life free and clear of your controlling ways and their dad who seems to want to keep you happy rather then do what best for his children.

We've all taken home a girlfriend/boyfriend who hasn't been the best.

If you want your family to continue as a family then you need to look seriously at whats more important to you, something that happen 500 years ago or your children. It's 2020, you live in different country, the world have been moved on from the 1500's.

I feel really sorry for your poor DS, he needs to get away from you and your DH and your ridiculous, prehistoric, disgusting views.

Good for him for not allowing himself to be brainwashed by your poison!!!!

I really cannot believe how much nastiness there is on this thread. OP, your husband suggested that once lock down is over, your son may leave home. Is it possible just to let things be for the time being?

You may hate what your son is doing and fear for him, but he is your son and this time together may be very precious. My eldest is 21 and, although an adult, he still needs his mother. Your son is likely to need his family now and in years to come. These few weeks may be an opportunity to build a bridge, without compromising your faith or betraying your culture, that allows your son to feel able to feel certain that you are his mother and you will be there for him no matter what.

Apologies for the sloppy sentence structure at the end of the last post.

Families aren't perfect. You can't force members of your family to think and behave in the exact way you do or you want them to.

What you can do is show tolerance and love and acceptance. You have shown all of those things to your nephew, in spite of what your specific community think. You broke free of their prejudices to show love and compassion. Now you need to dig deep and do the same for your son and his girlfriend.

I'd stop the feud and weirdness immediately. Tell him that you hate the mood in the house and you are going to start afresh. That you accept his choices and his way. That you love him no matter what. That it may not be easy, but you've got his back and you're prepared to learn.

This would explain why some of the Indian doctors and nurses I know voted for Boris because they said they didn't want open immigration from the wrong kind, by that they meant Muslim.

My Muslim women friends call Islam the beautiful religion and it is Ramadan, so if you are not familiar it is worth an internet search to find out a bit about it.

You don't often hear Christians or Catholics calling their faith ' beautiful'. I admire any religion if it brings people together in celebration and gives hope and creates strong communities especially for women and children. Muslim sisterhood is very strong, in fact I would say being part of a warm and loving network of like-minded people is what many in the lonely west would love to be a part of.

Unfortunately, narrow-mindedness and intolerance of any 'creed' is going to cause issues, isn't it? Especially if you believe you are better than anyone else?

Your son op sounds selfish and entitled. Why not cut off his WiFi, stop feeding him, tell him to make his own?

But also, why don't you make pork free dishes and invite his girlfriend around so you can get to know her?

Time to build bridges, study a bit of anthropology and see your God or gods as bringing joy, enlightenment, tolerance and peace into your life and those of others instead of mistrust, intolerance and hate!

You never know, you might prefer life that way!