Fruit picking? Are they f***ing serious?

[emmcan]

So whichever hapless muppet got dragged out today to do the daily lying to the gullible has suggested that furloughed workers could br picking fruit.

Fuck me, how fucking badly run is this shitshow?

The reason that we have had a two decades of migrant workers doing these jobs is because British people are too lazy and incompetent to do them.

And now they expect furloughed workers to head out into the fields and get their hands dirty?

It will happen, in a fashion, as they will just stop paying money to people who refuse to work, but it will be an appalling form of slave labour.

I did it when I was a teenager. The third year I did it the farm was bussing in people from Handsworth in Birmingham, from memory I would guess Pakistan or Bangladesh communities. They knew what to do but they would get all the trays when the tractor pulled up so we, meaning myself and friends from village, had nothing to pick into. They definitely worked hard but they didn't want us there. I guess they needed the work more, they were clearly ready for it. You got paid by the tray and it would be rejected if the strawberries were green.

@MrsMGE
Of course, I just wanted to offer a different perspective to some posts. Maybe being EE myself, I find the vanilla-abolitionist attitude in some posts (not yours, I hasten to add) quite funny and even somewhat patronising. Not everyone picking strawberries now is a hillbilly with no better perspectives in their life (not sure whether here or on the previous thread on this topic, but posters have even suggested that EE fruit pickers live without running water or electricity back home ). I considered going fruit picking myself in the UK during my student years, as there was recruiting in my university and many of my friends went, but opted instead towards working as a supervisor in a summer camp on similar pay (still not sure it was an easier option though, put me off having children for more than 10 years ). Among my friends who picked veg and fruit 15 years ago there's a senior doctor (yes, NHS and yes, on the frontline now), a Nature published researcher, a couple of tech innovators - ranging from millionaires to "broke but not broken", and simply a lot of boring suburban people like myself, with masters / doctorates and stable careers.

Of course this does not invalidate concerns about modern slavery and the monopolisation of this market by gangs. I genuinely just wanted to offer a different perspective.

i think its worth pointing out there are famrmers who pay and give there temp workers a good life.family meals,housing them treating them as friends.from the other side of the ses pit of picking on famrers they are not al lthe asaem.we only here of the bad ones because that is what reporting is about.there are the goodoones.
and of those they have experienced those that wont do the labour or the hours.because whether you like it or not when that produce needs picking it needs doing one the day or within very small timeframe.because us as costumers need the best.we need the perfect looking goods.and yes that invoves fucking long days.long hours through picking season.really hard work.but there are those famers working right alongside there worker treating them as eqauls.doing everything tehy ask of those that come over and work for them,then inviting them into their hams for a meal each night.ive seen them.

Fair enough kateandme. How can you tell which are which? If you by organic is that more or less better for workers, or are their cheap strawberries you can buy where the farmers have treated their workers fairly?

@firstmentat I wholeheartedly agree with you, there's so much of this patronising attitude in the UK it's sickening to read/watch/listen. Such ignorance. I have exactly the same approach as you, no work is beneath me and even though I'm in a professional job now and come from a fairly privileged home, the Eastern European work ethic has been very much dominant when I was growing up and I stick to it in my career now. I too worked all sorts of jobs before I got to where I am now, 7 days a week + uni at times, throughout the holidays etc. I never ever had the sense of entitlement that I observe amongst some people in the UK.

@firstmental Normally I grow 8 tomato plants to see us through the summer. I've got forty this year, so I won't need to buy passata, plus spares for next door. Twice as many french beans too, they freeze well.

Chillis, cucumbers, broad beans, courgettes, beetroot, cabbages. Interesting to see how much food I can grown in a not very big garden, given the time.

I know eastern Europeans aren't bumpkins. They are people who are desperate for money and work. They are providing for families back home. If we didn't have nmw laws in the UK there would be plenty of desperate british people working those jobs. The point is it's exploitative to pay people per unit and to make them pay for accommodation. That's why nmw was introduced, no company whether its farmers or warehouses or construction firms should be able to us loopholes to bypass the law in the way they are.

It is not that the UK pickers are lazy, but it is true that the foriegn pickers have often been brought up and trained in hard agricultural labour and they are physically better prepared for it. They are also paid even less in their own country. UK workers are not used to the back breaking work and are slower so of course the growers prefer the foreign workers

Some of the comments on here have really made me feel low. Entering the 6th week of furlough through no choice of my own.

Commenters saying being a fruit picker would qualify you as a key worker, so they could go to school, so there’s no problem is there? Get real! Everyone saying this casually ignoring the living situation and the piss poor wages because we have to “earn our keep”. Patronisingly saying “is volunteering in a care home or such beneath you?”.

Ok, you’re right. Clearly, I don’t deserve any of the money coming my way. I’ve only worked for 16 years, only half my life, people have worked for longer so clearly I’m scrounging. Paying my way through university whilst working in the supermarket, And for a few months after, always looked down and seen as a bad job. Shame, now I would have been deemed a hero.
11 years since graduating and I’ve worked full time since, paying my tax and NI, on not much more than minimum wage (nursery supervisor gets you a whopping 50p more an hour than a standard nursery worker.....just rolling in it I am).
Volunteering for my church in various ways. Donating to two charities close to me each month. Volunteering at Rainbows and Brownies for 8 years. Other voluntary work. Organising charity fundraisers and paying out of my own pocket. Shopping for the food bank every week.

I am a quiet person and don’t blow my own trumpet anywhere near enough, but some people on this thread are being really cruel. Of course emits east if you’re not furloughed to say “go and pick fruit” would you????? I actually tried!

You’re right though. I and furloughed people deserve nothing. How dare we have jobs that have had to come to a stop during this mess. Nothing anyone has done in the past counts towards our contribution anymore.

I don’t want this. I don’t want to be living off my now 3 figure salary and feeling useless like I currently am. So go for it. Kick people further down.

Emits east. I hate auto correct. I meant Of course it’s easy to say this if you’re not furloughed.

bananaskinsnomnom

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3890613-Some-people-enjoy-patronising-and-depressing-others

It is not that the UK pickers are lazy, but it is true that the foriegn pickers have often been brought up and trained in hard agricultural labour and they are physically better prepared for it.

Haha that won’t be true at all. The foreign pickers who come to the UK are usually ones who are desperate / vulnerable - most have done admin jobs in their home countries with very little exposure to agriculture. Fruit and veg providers have lied for years that British workers are somehow less than migrants in fruit picking - it’s not the case at all. Experienced British pickers are often rejected for made up reasons in this industry as it is reliant on cheap under-nmw labour to be profitable.

@bananaskinsnomnom some people seem to think that we chose this because we're lazy and don't want to do anything. Never mind that a lot of workplaces have been forced to close and we have no choice in the matter. As for "getting something for nothing" we all pay tax, some of that goes to a welfare system.

People are acting as if we're "scroungers" (hate that word). This is a TEMPORARY situation that is beyond our control. Those of us on furlough will be going back to work.

Sorry for the people who feel hard done by about still having to go to work, but being on furlough isn't fun for me. I'm getting a 3 figure amount in wages, and the longer my workplace has got to stay closed the less likely it is that I will even have a job to go back to.

Nothing to do with Brexit - the German women's football team are in the fields in Germany picking asparagus - there is a shortage of migrant labour.

This is interesting as it has headings titled claim and counter claim

www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/truth-behind-claims-crops-rot-4079222

Well said @bananaskinsnomnom fuck them on here .
I'm not picking fruit , I'm not lazy I've worked since I was 15 this is the longest I've not worked apart from maternity leave . Hell will freeze over before I'll pick any fruit not because it's beneath me I've had lots of shit jobs over the years but because when I go back to work it's to do my job .
The government closed work places so I can't do my job I'm not doing another one . I really give no fucks that people think I should .

@Notverybright too true for that thread.

@Waxonwaxoff0 thank you! And I know it’s not everyone on this website. So many people have currently been handed a shit set of cards and they’re all shit for a different reason. Why can’t people see that? And thank you for highlighting the word TEMPORARY. Another factor being looked over - Farmers want people to be working till October! (That’s what the one I contacted said anyway) Furlough might not stretch that far - there’s talks of more shops being reopened, food outlets are starting to open back up ( Greggs for example is trialing a few shops on a new system) - so much discussion about nurseries and schools going back, that will take a lot of people off furlough. Anyone on hear who normally has a cleaner, I expect once lockdown starts to lift you’ll probably want them back. Many companies are working out how to do the jobs while social distancing. More shops are starting to deliver. Farmers can’t keep training new people on e furlough starts to reduce.

We’ve all discussed on here the situation that comes with being a fruit picker and that clearly needs to change. Clearly it’s unsustainable from British employment standpoint and is corrupt in many places. That’s not the fault of the furloughed.

And thank you @imsooverthisdrama too. I just felt so low reading some of the comments on here.

I’m trying to be positive about this but it’s hard. I’ve applied for supermarket work and enquires about fruit picking. Supermarkets overloaded with applicants and I’m not talking about fruit anymore. I’m on the community volunteer list (and not shouting it all over Facebook) but haven’t been used - in fact the majority of us haven’t! Seems to be an area not badly hit.
So I’m just doing what I’ve been told to do. Stay at home, out the way, shopping when I need to to minimise the spread. And believe me a few lazy days and I’ll do anything to be back at work.
I don’t know how those who choose to be unemployed do it I really don’t.

@Mintjulia
You can think about starting a blog - it is something I would really enjoy reading. How much an ordinary person can grow in an ordinary back garden without making it a 24/7 job, with harvest recordings and realistic photos.

The minister made that suggested to test the waters. Expect similar articles in the Daily Mail in the coming days.

In any case I’m sure the Cambridge Analytics data is being stored somewhere. Even a junior data scientist could identify all those on social media/Facebook who wanted Brexit and cross check that list against those who are now furloughed and out of work. They should be happy to pick the fruit.

People really need to get a grip over this furlough lark.

I've noticed that some of the usual suspects that are fond of carping on about free money, free houses and benefits claimants (including in work and disabled benefits) are suspiciously quiet on furlough bashing threads - been furloughed have they?!

Furloughed workers are being treated like they're having a jolly old life at the expense of the tax payer, out of their own choice because they want to when in reality -
-Some industries have been closed completely to help slow the spread of covid19 and protect everyone. This was done by the government, NOT the workers or even businesses themselves.

• The people on furlough have jobs and have been, and will in the future (hopefully) be tax payers. All tax payers have contributed towards the money in the furlough scheme, all future tax payers will contribute to paying back the cost.
• Many employers have written in to furlough contracts that their employees will have furlough terminated and lose their employed status if they work anywhere else. That's the employers decision, NOT the employee.
• Some employers have furloughed non essential workers, saying their roles aren't needed, while other still employed workers pick up the slack. Again this is the employers decision NOT the employee.
• those in work where no footfall means no money have gone 6 weeks with no income. That's 80% of fuck all for 6 weeks.

-Those on furlough have reduced activity because they're not ALLOWED to be at work, reduced income and staying at home as they're being told to therefore sitting in the sun is pretty much the best thing they can do - yet are being slated for it. It's free to sit in the sun you know, all I can afford to do and there's plenty like me, recieving furlough doesn't mean you need to sit in the corner of a room with a sack over your head. It really doesn't.

So who's really adding pressure to those still working and preventing furloughed workers doing key roles like fruit picking? The employers making the decisions or the employee having no choice but to abide by them?

Ultimately Covid 19 is responsible for this, I don't think it really cares though.

It's far easier though to point the finger and blame the people who are as much at the mercy of these decisions as those still working. It's pathetic and just shows that some people can't think things through in the slightest way, or already know the truth yet ignore it in favour of trying to make other people feel shit because they enjoy the power.

I see furlough as an emergency extension to the welfare system, there as a safety net when the shit hits the fan. Well guess what, there's brown stuff everywhere.

@1forsorrow So let me get this straight. You don't work anyway, you're retired, therefore in the generation that will take out far more than they ever contributed, and your dh is disabled. But you expect the furloughed, mainly from the same generations that are already paying for the system that supports you, to feel guilty about a temporary situation that wasn't of their making?

I'm not understanding why it's ok for you to receive permanent 'handouts' from the tax payer with no enforced or moral duty to contribute, but furloughed tax payers should feel obliged to earn some of their own money back.

Apologies if anyone thinks that's my general view of pensioners and the disabled. It isn't, the generational inequality isn't the fault of today's pensioners, and of course nobody chooses to be disabled. In the same way that the furloughed aren't to blame for lockdown, or being in roles that were furloughed. And nor did they choose to get 'handouts' over an earned wage. I'm just using it to illustrate the hypocrisy of someone from the group that as a whole are net takers, attempting to tell the group that as a whole are net contributors they should earn their handouts.

Fwiw I was helping neighbours out when I was still working ft and commuting everyday. I did more when I was still working a small amount from home. Coincidentally that also includes doing a few tasks for the farm next door where we'd normally share them. We've already discussed the fact that if required the teen dc and I can work, or just help out, with the livestock, because we have some experience and plenty of transferable skills. Because that's just how life works for normal people, it doesn't give me a volunteers high horse to lecture from. But like fuck will anyone tell me I need to earn my furlough pay.

Plus the point of furloughing is to hopefully keep companies from going under, meaning the jobs will still be there. The welfare bill for everyone who will have lost the jobs without furlough would be considerably higher.

Not sure how being retired makes you a net taker. The world didn't start (and more importantly tax collection didn't start) on the day you were born.

I don't see the difference between those who haven't been furloughed being forced to pick up the responsibilities of others and go an extra mile and work differently because of the circumstances, and those who have been furloughed beimg forced to do other work on a temporary basis.

I don't understand why some of those who are furloughed are so opposed to doing things that are needed right now, for the good of everyone. I really don't. Unless you have a genuine health reason, there are no excuses. Some people clearly struggle to grasp that times of crisis require everyone to go an extra mile and do things you wouldn't normally do. This is called doing the right thing. I can't imagine how you lot would cope throughout the war and afterwards, tbh, and I'd only hope not to be surrounded by people with this kind of attitude. We're not far off a crisis of this scale economically and yet you just don't get it.

Yes firstmentat and MintJulia. I’d be interested in some tips too. We only have a 30ft by 30ft back garden and a small front garden but I’ve cleared out my flower borders in the front and back ready for the cucumbers, courgettes, tomatoes, peppers, onions, cabbages, broccoli, beetroots, and carrots that have all come up as seedlings from the 79p packs I got from Home Bargains just before all this kicked off. Had to buy lots of pots and soil which have probably cost more than it will be to buy the veg but still we should have plenty of stock later in the summer! We already had strawberries, raspberries, and blueberries and our mini cherry tree was full of blossoms so hopefully will have lots of cherries too. The good weather has definitely helped and I’m amazed at how many seedlings have come up - 30 tomato plants!

DH has had to cut up some of our decking to make trays as were going to have so much. We used to play around with growing but we’re going to try doing it seriously this year due to CV. It’s really good for the DC to see and for the old MH too.