Do you think Cornwall will be 'open' in July?

[NoSoapAndGory]

Hi all.

A purely speculative post to gauge opinions, as I know we don't know, don't have a crystal ball, etc etc.

We have booked a self catering holiday cottage near Bude for the first 10 days of July. We live in the South East, so it's about 5 hours drive to get there on a good day. We have a dog so would need to stop at a service station at least once.

As part of general future-focused conversation, DH and I are ruminating about

1: will we be 'allowed' to go
2: if we are, would we want to anyway?
3: if it's 'allowed', will the Bude community welcome us or hate us?
4: will the tourist industry want revenue or not?

Etc. Etc. Etc.

Anyone else having similar discussions, and if so, what are you thinking?

@ComeBackLaterPlease

Local police, MPs, Councillors and the actual UK government have been consistent that people should live at their primary residence, and someone very high profile who is clearly not doing this encourages the many others who also think the guidance should not apply to them

This whole thing is verging on utterly ridiculous. In the space of a few weeks we have gone from a country where the rule of law was paramount to one where the rule of guidance is paramount. Which guidance is anyone's guess as all different.

Can I categorically state, as I have done another thread is that most of the guidance that has been issued not only has no foundation in law, but is nowhere remotely like the law that was passed. There is a reason for that in that some sensible MPs saw the writing on the wall about the law and being at risk of rapidly becoming a police state and refused to back such draconian measures which breach basic rights.

Thus the legislation in relation to individuals state in

Regulation 6.—(1) During the emergency period, no person may leave the place where they are living without reasonable excuse. That is it!!!

Regulation 6(2) specifically lists for clarity what is specifically a reasonable excuse, ie attending a funeral, going shopping BUT there are lots of other things that could be a reasonable excuse and the law recognises it

So all the different organisations and government have produced guidance as to what they personally think but doesn't reflect the law, so (and some happened to my neighbour):

Local police set up a roadblock and interrogate drivers and passengers as to what they were doing and threatening to arrest those who didn't comply. Unlawful

Local police searching the vehicle,e and car boot to check the shopping is (in their view) essential. Unlawful.

Police checking trolleys when leaving supermarket to check on the contents. Unlawful

Police putting notices on cars in beauty spot car parks informing drivers their cars are now in an intelligence database and could be prosecuted. Total rubbish and no such law exists to enable such a prosecution.

Can only leave home once a day. Utter rubbish.

Can't sit down for a drink or something to eat when out exercising. Rubbish. No foundation in law and in fact is unlawful if such a law existed as it would discriminate against the aged or disabled.

I won't go in, but there are loads more that this little Hitlers have taken delight in producing, including many councils.

So Gordon Ramsay is entitled to be in Cornwall as that is the place where he is living at that point in time. The law doesn't say you can't have more that one home. So you may all love bickering at him, and he probably doesn't care less as no publicity is bad publicity but he hasn't broken any law.

If the posters on MN want us to move to a situation whereby local officials make the law and not parliament then good luck because that the point we are no longer a democracy.

If parliament had wanted all the rubbish listed in guidance, they would have legislated for it. They didn't and the likes of David Davis who objected had a cross party consensus on this

Well, "reasonable excuse" isn't "I quite fancy going to my second home", is it?

The chief medical officer of Scotland resigned because she did it.

No - she resigned because her public statements didn't match her private actions, which compromised her integrity.

If someone doesn’t break the law, but does ignore guidelines put in place to stop people dying, any criticism of them is totally justified!

She couldn't justify why she'd done it. Because it's not a reasonable excuse.

@category12

Agree in that she went there for the weekend, not move there to live for weeks/months

@4cats2kids ...oh so accepting no one has broken the law, still have to abide by guidelines. Well some are sensible , some not as I illustrated. But actually there have been so many different guidelines and versions of them there was never one version. In addition, what these people have tried to do is usurp Parliament.

Don't you think if parliament wanted what was in the guidelines they would have legislated for it?? No so my point was the little Hitlers grasped it and made it up!!

"... guidelines put in place to stop people dying, "

Here's one of the problems. The guidelines were not put in place to directly stop people dying, they were put in place so that hospitals were not overwhelmed by everyone who needed intensive care needing it at once. This appears to have worked very well. But, sooner or later, we will have to come out of lockdown and more people will catch Covid and more people will, unfortunately, die. If those numbers start increasing to the point that it looks like the NHS will be swamped if they carry on unchecked, we will have to go into lockdown again. This may need to be repeated more than once. Or maybe not. No one knows, regardless of how many computer models are produced. So, for the purposes of this thread, Cornwall could be deprived of tourists for several years, or several times over for shorter periods.

I've been going to the same place in Cornwall for many years and am in contact with people who I've got to know there. They are all connected with the tourist industry, which is why I know them. They all say that they will be ruined and probably have to live on benefits for many years, if Cornwall is closed all season. Some have pointed out that many of the people who are shouting for visitors to stay away tend to have incomes unrelated to tourism, often from working in the public sector.

What’s basic common sense is not moving from one area to another during a pandemic when it is not absolutely necessary. Which is exactly what a lot of second home owners have done.

I don’t care why parliament didn’t legislate, but people shouldn’t need laws to force them to give a shit about other people’s safety. And they shouldn’t act with disregard for the safety of a community and not expect to get some serious flack from them.

I’m not arguing tourism isn’t vital.

I’m just arguing people should act according to the spirit of what the government has asked us to do at this moment in time.

I don’t agree the lockdown was not aiming to reduce deaths. Didn’t the government act due to the report that said there would be deaths in the hundreds of thousand if the virus was left to run rampant? It’s probably the case that once the NHS can cope they will ease lockdown. However, I suspect there will be another once the virus increases again, both for the sake of the NHS and to keep the death rates as low as is possible.

It likely that the tourist industry won’t get back to normal for a very long time, which is a shame for people who have booked holidays, and absolutely devastating for areas reliant on tourism. However, I don’t understand why this means second home owners think there is one rule/ guideline/ whatever for them and another for every one else!

The guidelines were not put in place to directly stop people dying,

Aren't the two things - the NHS being able to cope and avoiding more deaths inextricably entwined? If there are not enough beds/ventilators/staff to go around, then more people would die because they wouldn't be able to get the care required. They're not separate issues. Saying it's not directly for that is surely just semantics.

But, sooner or later, we will have to come out of lockdown and more people will catch Covid and more people will, unfortunately, die. If those numbers start increasing to the point that it looks like the NHS will be swamped if they carry on unchecked, we will have to go into lockdown again

It's not as simple as everyone being in or out of lockdown. We are moving towards social distancing, testing, tracking and tracing and isolating.

However, if thousands of people go to Cornwall in a couple of months and stay in hotels and on campsites and share holiday homes, it's going to very difficult to implement those measures, and we could be back in lockdown sooner rather than later.

And the Cornish industry could still be devastated, because businesses actually rely on millions, not thousands of people visiting Cornwall.

(Cornish tourism industry could still be devastated)

We normally go on about four UK weekend breaks a year. We hadn't booked any as we booked a expensive holiday abroad but was planning on booking somewhere for Halloween for the kids.

I'm not sure we will be spending any money on holidays for at least this year now. I desperately want TUIto cancel and refund our July holiday.

I dont feel safe going on holiday or spending that kind of money in a unsecure future.

I wo der how these tourist companies can survive this massive hit. I dont think it's going to feel any safer come Autumn even if everything is open.

Cornish tourism industry could still be devastated

So what? tourism keeps cornwall as some pretty little back water for the wealthy to come stay and buy up property.
Rick Stein isn't paying his local workforce until he gets the money from furlough in his bank account, thats not how furlough works and he could afford to pay them from his own considerable worth... we don't need people like him here.

We have poor health provision esp in the west (and the most touristy part) of Cornwall, crappy roads, terrible rail links, below avg wages and super expensive housing, so what has tourism really done for Cornwall?

We have poor health provision esp in the west (and the most touristy part) of Cornwall, crappy roads, terrible rail links, below avg wages and super expensive housing, so what has tourism really done for Cornwall

And if it gets worse without the money from tourism, then what?

So what? tourism keeps cornwall as some pretty little back water for the wealthy to come stay and buy up property.

I'm not wealthy and what I spend makes very little difference to the Cornish economy but I love Cornwall. However this is the sort of attitude that makes me think I'll probably take the holidays booked and paid for if I can and go elsewhere in future.

OP if the government advise it’s safe to allow people to stay in holiday cottages, and you get your holiday, I hope you have a nice break. Most reasonable residents seem to be saying that holiday makers are very welcome when it is safe again.

Voice of reason

Absolutely. Until gov says it's okay, people shouldn't be going and local can feel righteous indignation.
If give says it's safe having weighed all the risks, people can go and any indignation from locals won't be quite so righteous.

Just go with what the gov says.

Hang on up thread there, the Rick Stein stuff was false news - hes actually been very good to his staff and like lots of the local restaurant owners have been supporting the frontline with nice deliveries! False news is a joker these days!

Just saw a lovely facebook video out from Treliske ICU saying how they have managed to get up to room for 60 ventilated patients. This is a huge step up for them but is clearly not like the 4000 in more densely populated areas. If our population increases as it does in season then it is a huge struggle and itl be the temporary morgue we use. Thats why its no holiday here for some time to come.

No one in Cornwall thinks tourism isnt vital, it clearly is, its just that if we get over run with covid as the lockdown steps down we will not be able to cope - ergo holidaying will not be a holiday around dying people surely?
Have you seen the doctor who killed herselve in the US because of the complete inevitability of being able to cope - this is why we in Cornwall - who love our frontline family members - do not want to get to that stage where people are dying before getting lifted out of the ambulances. Its honestly not about not liking tourists, its about being sensible. We know we need tourism, thats normal life here, but tourism in a pandemic? How would that work. I was queing down the street of my local co op near a popular holiday desination today thinking how would a season work like this, we would be queing for miles - it is all a sombre and slow process to get whatever food is still there - today I was so happy there was pasta! Honestly cant see how a holiday season will happen for a very long time. Not while we need to stay 2 meters apart - its hard enough avoiding our neighbours on these little roads!

I think it’s highly unlikely that Cornwall and other holiday destinations will be open in July.

Rick Stein isn't paying his local workforce until he gets the money from furlough in his bank account

which should be today or tomorrow.

There we are Im glad the government has recognised the issue now-
"Gove replied: “My honourable friend is right, Cornwall is beautiful, visiting it is a pleasure, but at the moment and for some time to come, don’t.”|" (from yahoo- debate today)

Cornwall, and especially western Cornwall, suffers because it's so far from everything else, and it has been impoverished ever since the mining industry found easier cheaper places to extract minerals. The infrastructure is thinly spread and there's not much big industry here. Most larger employers tend to be either public sector or food-related, and neither is highly paid.

Second-home owners do distort Cornish property values, especially in the prettier villages and most scenic coastal areas where people want to sail and surf. Rather less away from the coasts but cheap, compared to London and the Southeast for anyone with significant disposable income.

Tourism provides low-paid, low-skilled work for about seven or eight months of each year; that is a much longer season than in my youth 55 years ago when it was confined to Easter and summer school holidays, a total of about 11 weeks.

Why has it changed? Back then, before the A30 and the M5, it took six hours to drive from the Lizard to Bristol to visit one set of grandparents, and another three hours the next day to get to the others. Nobody visited Cornwall for the weekend. There wasn't an airport. Cornwall has become more accessible. By and large, it's progress.

Saying that, I am really really really sorry to hear it obviously - Id far far far rather a summer where we can play with our children on the beaches with our family - and where we can go on holidays whenever we want - but its just obvious here that holidays arent happening - and its really really sad for everyone in the UK . And it is going to devestate the economy. But even that isnt as bad as all the deaths.

So what? tourism keeps cornwall as some pretty little back water for the wealthy to come stay and buy up property.

My point is that a few thousand tourists could be enough to spread the virus but not nearly enough to save businesses that depend on tourism, so Cornwall could end up with the the worst of both worlds.

Whether or not Cornish people should or can thrive without tourism is a completely different question.