AIBU to get a bit fucked off at having to protect the NHS?

[Santaclauswhosthat]

This is a healthcare system I've paid into all my life. I don't think everyone who works in it is a hero and the vast majority of them aren't underpaid. It's ranked 16th in the world and has the worst cancer outcomes for any developed country. It's not very good. Nonetheless it's the only healthcare system open to me right now. But I can't access it. My operation had been cancelled and I can't get a consultant appointment. The GPs aren't seeing patients face to face. I've already had one tumour removed that was on the turn. I'm worried that I may have another. I have no way of finding out if this is the case. A family member has already died of covid 19 after being denied treatment for three days during which repeated calls to the ambulance service were made whereupon his mother was told she should only ring again if his lips turned blue. He is dead. Right now. The NHS didn't protect him. It isn't protecting me either. What is the point of the NHS, exactly? Most clinics are closed or running at half mast. GPs aren't seeing anyone. NHS staff get shopping hours and free food and fuck knows what else and we are all dying protecting them.

I think many doctors are saying that they need to find a way to treat patients with other conditions. I would imagine many in cancer specialties etc are very concerned about patients and about the explosion in workload when they do open up. It will not however be their decision. The govmt now needs to be held to account for the next phase. How will they manage other health needs. The NHS has not been overwhelmed as most other hospital services have been suspended. The lack of funding and cuts to beds and services will of course be apparent when we return to normal service. I imagine that this is why they are being so careful not to provide normal services and why they are fawning over health professionals (who I have always had high regard for in general).

@MrsNoah2020 I woukd be happy to pay more tax subject to a cross party root and branch overview of the NHS and a significant reorganisation that leads all NHS staff to the understanding they are providing a service paid for by the public rather than doing us a favour because it's free.

I am not prepared to pay more when already I have had to pay thousands of pounds to secure essential clinical care for mentally unwell teenager because the NHS refused to provide care when she was cutting herself with razor blades and taking small overdoses. When the MH nurse was so incompetent she laughed down the phone when I informed her of the psychiatrist's diagnosis. Oh yes, and subsequent to diagnosis, guess what? That teenager recovered.

OMH, I've just realised that there are people ignorant enough to think that 'protecting the nhs' means protecting nhs staff and haven't figured out that it means protecting the nation so that the number people who require care can be maximise.

Really? Is it that hard to understand this concept?

Agree about what people have said about people not looking after themselves and expecting the ‘free’ NHS patching them up. The worst thing to do to yourself is be obese, yet you only have to walk around and see hugely fat people, including teenagers, many older people are quite slim. This as we know results in many, many expensive medical problems, including more likely to get the current virus.

Ironically, very high numbers of NHS are very overweight!

Absolutely. Luckily the state does not force us all to hve the same view. I have seen my GP once in 15 years and don't drink or smoke or get sick. I have had 2 colds in the last 2 years. The NHS even now is not really there for most people because GPs seem to be closed, 111 can take 3 hours to answer and ambulances do not seem to be turning up unless you are virtually dead and but as long as 1.4m NHS workers are not swamped even if they are sitting in empty wards as many are doing - that is all that apparently matters.

My 7 minute GP appointment must have cost me at least £100,000 in tax.

Also the clapping thing which is the sort of thing you do nursery school and thankfully our street does not seem to do is a bit like a North Korean compulsory worship of the leader exercise.... that you know something is horrible and do not like it but are forced to go out in public and say you revere it.... weird. Obviously most of us think anyone working hard for the nation whetheyr on a covid 19 ward, delivering groceries (my older son's job) or working to generate tax to pay nurses are people we all admire but this NHS thin is very strange. I could not even watch the UK olympics opening ceremony as i was so appalled by the NHS elements to it.

Even so I am not against having a basic health service although I would like those who are over weight to have to pay for the cost up front on a debit card so the rest of us are not burdened with that and I would like an opt out so eg I could pay a third as much tax as now i return for not suing it.

Instead what we face is massive tax increases next year particularly on those who have had no state help this year in the crisis to pay for the Government's decision to shut down when we did not need to do so. 20,000 covid deaths is horrible but 600,000 people die a year in the UK anyway.

I don't want to pay more tax, I want people to stop obsessing about food and alcohol and look after themselves. The behaviour in shops at this moment says it all really, people prepared to fight for a bag of pasta or bottle of wine.

What don't you do your bit for the nhs and donate each week what you spend in biscuits, chocolate and booze. That will be Moore finding for the nhs and less needs for it. Double win.

Oh wait, not something you want to do, lets blame the workers and politicians instead!

"Cancer screening and treatment including sugery has been suspended in many, many areas"
In some areas it has not so that should show that it is the NHS trusts who must be making those decisions. Those decisions are not being made by the Government as some posters seem to be inferring.

My cousin had surgery for skin cancer at the beginning of March. Her follow-up appointment was cancelled at the last minute. It was then re-arranged and she is having further surgery including reconstruction of her earlobe this week.

My DH was:
1.Called in by the GP for a blood test.

1. Telephoned by GP to say he was going to have a 1-week urgent referral to hospital.
2. Telephoned to say 1st hospital not doing cancer checks so referred to another on a 2 -week referral.
3. Given a telephone appointment with the Consultant.
4. Consultant just phoned and said he'll send an appointment to physically see DH in 3 months time.

So, yes, some areas are seeing patients and treating and others aren't. My cousin lives 5 miles away on the edge of our county and another so I don't know if that is relevant.

My ndn is a nurse and said there is no chemo going in at the hospital where she works (well nothing going on really except for covid wards).

Ohtheroses
On private healthcare insurance those payments would be in addition to current taxes.

20,000 covid deaths is horrible but 600,000 people die a year in the UK anyway.

So?

Ironically, very high numbers of NHS are very overweight!
Not very highly higher than it should be. Shows they are 'normal' people who should indeed help the nhs just as much.

By the way, I don't clap on Thursdsys. There is a difference between not being party to a national tribute and openly criticising these people the way some posters have done here.

@Xenia, of course there are people who take of their health and cost little to the nhs. Sadly, there many more who don't. THEY are the people to blame for the nhs being unable to cope.

Reduce diabetes by 20% and that would release many millions. Sadly, prediction is going the other way, with cost growing in billions, ie. thousand of millions.

OP
You are not paying very much currently for healthcare via taxes.
If the system changes to insurance based but ' free at the point of care' as has been proposed by the Tories many times I am sure we/ you will pay our/ your current taxes plus new healthcare insurance or taxes.

I would say YABU but your points are hard to ignore, so in your case YANBU

I'm so sorry for your loss op, and for everything you are going through.

Those who think they would pay less for a different health service, perhaps something more American, need to look at the American national health bill. Also read up on how risk pools work.

Basically, unless the vast majority of people stop scoffing fat and sugar and binge drinking you are all screwed, regardless of the funding method of your healthcare.

It’s actually the health costs for older people which are crippling. We are living longer and there are more of us.

Also prescriptions count for a huge amount of the NHS budget. And blaming the public is as bad as blaming NHs staff.

It is health inequalities that will determine your chronic health like diabetes and it is argued that this is less about individual ability to make choices and more about inequalities which make are about many factors, childhood, access to good health choices like money and also stress where just surviving is the bar for many.

People who have had abusive and chaotic childhoods are much more likely to have chronic ill health problems, even if you take out lifestyle choices like smoking.

I have seen my GP once in 15 years and don't drink or smoke or get sick

Wow, what a lovely attitude. Do you think that most people who get sick are to blame for their illness?

If you have been healthy enough not to need to see a GP much, count yourself lucky. If you are wealthy enough to pay a lot of tax, count yourself lucky.

Most healthcare costs are in the last year of life If you could opt out now, what would happen when you are no longer earning? Say you get cancer (not wishing that on you, but one in three people do) - cancer care costs hundreds of thousands of pounds. Have you got that ready? Will you have it ready when you are old and perhaps having to spend thousands per month on a care home?

But, hey, as long as you're healthy at the moment, let's dismantle the NHS, eh? Because it's only you who matter..

I'm not sure some of the people replying have read the OP properly. I hope they haven't because some of you should be ashamed of yourself if you're knowingly replying so nastily to someone bereaved and scared that they have cancer.

None of my neighbours are following the social distancing guidelines. One neighbour has TWICE taken the family to the coast since lockdown began (we live over 50 miles from the coast). The other neighbours are going in and out of each other's homes, going to the local shop daily, having family visiting from miles away. These are the same people who stand outside each others houses each Thursday at 8pm banging their pans and then grouping closely together for a chat afterwards. DH has only left our house three or four times since lockdown started and that was to go to one shop to get food. I haven't left home at all. If people are not following lockdown rules then why are we being asked to fundraise and give the NHS money to care for people who are not following the rules? If the lockdown isn't going to be enforced then why have a lockdown at all?

• Ihave seen my GP once in 15 years and don't drink or smoke or get sick. I have had 2 colds in the last 2 years.

Lucky lucky you. Remember not to get cancer or Parkinson's or MS or have an accident.

My 7 minute GP appointment must have cost me at least £100,000 in tax

OH s cancer treatments must cost 100s of £1,000s.

to pay for the Government's decision to shut down when we did not need to do so. 20,000 covid deaths is horrible but 600,000 people die a year in the UK anyway.
It's some time since I've read the " but people die anyway" thing.

If you haven't been getting annual screenings for breast cancer and cervical cancer it would be very wise to break your GP-free streak, Xenia, and make those appointments.

@LisaSimpsonsbff oh I'm sure they have, but no one is allowed to criticise our beloved health service (rolls eyes into oblivion).

I'm so sorry for your loss

Five years ago as a family of four we needed the NHS on five different occasions in an unusual run of events. We opted to pay privately three out of those five times as the care we received from the NHS was inadequate. It wasn't the doctors or nurses but the waiting times and general setup of the system.

We since took out private health insurance but now find out that private hospitals have been turned into NHS covid hospitals. We pay our taxes and expect the government to use our money effectively however this isn't the case. I don't know if the NHS actually needs more money thrown at it or the money that it does receive needs to be spent properly. I'm not blaming the NHS staff but it seems the whole system needs an overhaul.

It's crazy that we have to pay our taxes and NI and then on top of that pay for private medical care to receive adequate and timely treatment.

At the moment we're paying a lot of tax plus a premium for a service that doesn't currently exist. And all that when you have to wait at home till you're blue in the lips? And have operations cancelled? Can't get through to 111. They haven't even been able to organise proper dental care hence a poor man going to the extremes of pulling out his own tooth. And we call ourselves a developed country.

OP, you are not being unreasonable at all. There has been such a serious reduction in heart attack and stroke patients at A&E that NHS managers and doctors are on the media asking for patients. The Times reports today that the guidelines given to 101 operators has meant that people struggling to breathe were actively deterred from seeking medical care. The backlog of cancer patients and their cancelled operations and missed diagnoses will result in deaths. A functioning health care system protects its patients. The slogan protect the NHS is a symptom of profound dysfunction. But its cheerleaders will continue to ignore these inconvenient truths.

I understand what you’re saying. It’s crap that outside of COVID and life threatening events, the NHS has been put on hold.

When the government mouthpieces stand on the podium each day and ask us to protect the NHS I want to know what they have done over the last few decades to protect it? They’ve run in into the ground, cut provision across the board, reduced beds, staff and made conditions so grim, many have bad enough. And now it’s our job to protect it. I get that there’s only so many staff and so many ICU beds available but the management of this has been an ode to incompetence, failure to act on pandemic preparedness exercises and greed. God knows how the NHS are going to catch up again with everything they were doing previously and constantly struggling to do thanks to systematic and relentless cost cutting.