AIBU to get a bit fucked off at having to protect the NHS?

[Santaclauswhosthat]

This is a healthcare system I've paid into all my life. I don't think everyone who works in it is a hero and the vast majority of them aren't underpaid. It's ranked 16th in the world and has the worst cancer outcomes for any developed country. It's not very good. Nonetheless it's the only healthcare system open to me right now. But I can't access it. My operation had been cancelled and I can't get a consultant appointment. The GPs aren't seeing patients face to face. I've already had one tumour removed that was on the turn. I'm worried that I may have another. I have no way of finding out if this is the case. A family member has already died of covid 19 after being denied treatment for three days during which repeated calls to the ambulance service were made whereupon his mother was told she should only ring again if his lips turned blue. He is dead. Right now. The NHS didn't protect him. It isn't protecting me either. What is the point of the NHS, exactly? Most clinics are closed or running at half mast. GPs aren't seeing anyone. NHS staff get shopping hours and free food and fuck knows what else and we are all dying protecting them.

I’m getting fed up of the Cult of NHS. It’s going too far now

It’s not been underfunded but we have to start thinking about adopting the German model. Privatisation doesn’t mean America and the left always mention that to scare people. It’s bullshit.

So many selfish and nasty posts and such an unpleasant OP.
There has been doctor and nurse bashing on MN fir a long time and I didn't think it would take long to come back.

We are not kept in jobs by taxpayers. We are paid at very low rates compared to other highly trained professional roles and to the pay we would receive if healthcare were privatised. Doctor's and nurses will never be out of work as people always need health care. If the system became privatised it is patients not doctors and nurses who would miss out financially and wrt their care.

The NHS is rightly respected and ranked highly in the world due to excellent training and a cohesive system. It is massively taken fir granted both by the public and by the govt. the govt has tried hard to do it down and reduce its profile by disrespecting staff and closing beds and hospitals. As we are chronically short staffed before covid our long on call shifts are intensely busy to the point of constant multitasking / rushing between multiple emergencies and staying beyond hours and not eating and drinking on shift. This is not great for anyone and Im sure if we had more doctors on shift patients would wait less time to be seen etc.

The govt have been against us , insisted that it's just a job not a vocation and told lies to the press and public about not working weekends etc. Now they need us and are trying to pretend that never happened. They have spoilt some of our infrastructure which is vital for good working.

We are now in covid times and working in dangerous conditions with low staffing ( chronic, new due to covid sickness) for the health of our patients during the covid crisis. If we really wanted to avoid this , I'm sure we could be redeployed to a non patient facing area on the basis of stress or protection of our children etc. But if even a few people did this there would not be enough trained doctors in each acute hospital. Everyone I know wants to do as much as they can - we are working in new roles, new areas, annual leave is cancelled indefinitely , Bank Holidays cancelled, weekend and evening and night work increased to provide enough safe cover. Many doctors are even living in temporary accommodation as covid shifts put their babies and children too much at risk of death because the viral load we encounter from sick patient exposure all day is high and that's why we think we are getting sick and losing staff.

I haven't got tine for more writing but I think it's saddening and disappointing to read such selfish and mean minded OP and posts.
When this is over the support from govt needs to continue so we have enough beds and staff and we are listened to fir the good of our patients. If they can do this now why have they not been able to help us before?

@kingofkings absolutely agree with you! 100%!

Should add, Ive been quite worried from he start about people staying at home too long while very sick before coming in to hospital because the advice about staying home from the govt was so vehement. If you need hospital care you need it whether for covid or for other emergencies.

The model isn’t broken. Most insurance based systems have grown closer to tax-payer funded systems over the last decade or so. The bigger the risk pool, the more financially efficient the system. The issue however is a massive lack of funding, some ridiculous competition decisions and frameworks and fiddling around structural change. The most sensible thing any politician could do would be to stop messing with structures, up funding to a comparable level to other European countries and properly fund social care. Too many services have been run to the bone during austerity with preventative services been shafted.

It is hit and miss and the luck of the draw. The British think the NHS is brilliant, but having lived in 4 other countries I can tell you that it is not. If we let a government overhaul it we would probably find that it would be much more efficient and better in 5-10 years time, but as a nation we won't let them.

I'd like to see an option to opt out of a portion of NI if you are willing to pay for private health care. I'd also like to see the NHS stripped back and trimmed down to only cover certain medical treatments and not life style choices.

There are actually a lot of crap services in the UK. I have relatives that live overseas in small towns in the middle of nowhere, where there are low paid jobs and not a lot of money and their healthcare is much better than here and their local council has money to spend on street parties 4 times a year. Our economy seems to be like a tyre with a permanent massive puncture.

They need to start opening hospitals for testing and treatment of cancer etc, or more people will die. They have taken over private hospitals, they could be used for this to start. I needs some tests, which and I can’t get and I pay for them through insurance.

I'm sure everyone criticising the NHS on here is doing voluntary work that puts their lives at as much risk as HCPs
Or encouraging their kids to become HCPs? Since it is so well paid and there's such a shortage of them.

They need to start opening hospitals for testing and treatment of cancer etc, or more people will die
Start? Essential treatment still takes place, including cancer treatment. What is happening is that they have been moved elsewhere, in hospitals with no A&E and urgent treatment preferably, you know to protect them. Doctors who have to travel every day many more miles to help protect their patients.

I agree with lots that has been said here. Our family has been badly let down by a similar experience too - all agreed that an ambulance was needed, we were told it was being sent, no-one ever arrived. Fortunately the worst did not happen, but 6 weeks on the person is still having difficulty breathing, likely has long-term lung damage, but can’t get access to any care. We have had to pay for private doctor consultations to get antibiotics prescribed.
Ironically we were sent back to the U.K. from our work in Asia because it was deemed safer (we were still paying tax in the U.K., before anyone starts on that...), but the outcomes here are far worse that what we would have experienced there. We are looking into private healthcare for the longer term.

It’s not been underfunded but we have to start thinking about adopting the German model

Germany spends 11.2 of its GDP on healthcare; the UK spends 9.6.

That means that the UK spends £2,989 per person on healthcare, whereas Germany spends £4,432 per person (2017 figures). If the UK spent the same as Germany per person, that would be another £93 billion per year on the NHS - almost double the current budget.

Most of the British public want it both ways: low taxes, but the same public services as a country that bothers to invest in them. Well, you can't have it both ways, and HCPs are sick of being blamed for years of under-investment.

@MrsNoah2020 - you're bang on, that's what I've been saying for years!

www.google.com/amp/s/scienceblog.cancerresearchuk.org/2020/04/21/how-coronavirus-is-impacting-cancer-services-in-the-uk/amp/

@dontdisturbmenow You're wrong i'm afraid. Cancer screening and treatment including sugery has been suspended in many, many areas.

Am so sorry for your loss, I had a similar situation my late DM went to her GP for 2 years complaining of symptoms, he did nothing, she died in the Hospital where I was nursing, I hated him, told the Hospital where to stick their job, because he ran the GP unit there. It wasnt the NHS fault, they are dying to save people I have done barrier, reverse barrier isolation, never worn full PPE 14 hours, no break, no drink got pressure sores on my face because of it. compared with a lot of other jobs the money is shit, £15 an hour after

i am sorry for your loss, and your situation.
the scientists are aware of the deaths caused indirectly from the situation.

scienceblog.cancerresearchuk.org/2020/04/21/how-coronavirus-is-impacting-cancer-services-in-the-uk/

It is hit and miss and the luck of the draw. The British think the NHS is brilliant, but having lived in 4 other countries I can tell you that it is not
Which countries is that and what experience have you had to be able to conclude that service s are so much better there?

If our nation looked after themselves better , or. eat well, exercise, reduce drinking, our nhs would function perfectly. However, when it has to spend billions every year just to treat diabetes, most cases due to people's poor management of their health, it struggles.

But every time this is mentioned, discussions go quiet, because people don't want to look at their own responsibilities and impact on healthcare. Much better to shift responsibilities on others and then blame them for not giving the examplary care to treat conditions that they wouldn't have if indeed they'd look after themselves.

Our local hospital is imploring people to continue using their services if they are unwell.

I know from a friend's experience that they still investigating for cancers. However, treatment for cancers are now different- weighing up the risk of dying from the cancer without surgery/chemo
versus dying from covid19 due to a weakened immune system following chemo/massive surgery.
Plus you don't know who had covid19 as they may not have symptoms and the tests are very inaccurate. Giving this person chemo could kill them in a very short time.

Putting this as a post doesn't explain why you haven't been able to access any care. Do you have a GP or did you register temporarily with one? Why couldn't they give antibiotics or did they not recommend them?

agree that your anger is misplaced op, best wishes

www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=scienceblog.cancerresearchuk.org/2020/04/21/how-coronavirus-is-impacting-cancer-services-in-the-uk/amp/&ved=2ahUKEwjGxcDkx4XpAhUUShUIHd1lCU8QFjABegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw2rTQ_AtiNZdd-uejHPa4qv&ampcf=1

My last attempt to post the link from cancer research UK. Screening suspendes, treatments including surgery cancelled and lack of investigations leading to an estimated 2,300 cases per week not being diagnosed.

We need to stay at home to try and prevent the NHS being overwhelmed, I agree with that. My son became seriously ill 5 months ago and after a month of endless trips to GPs, referrals to hospital, sitting in A and E all night three times, he was diagnosed with blood cancer. I saw the worst of the NHS, disjointed, disorganised and overwhelmed. Yes on the whole staff were great but some were disillusioned and clearly struggling to cope. My son was left to cry in pain all night in a hospital bed and basically ignored, the nurses could do nothing because there no doctors available and no one tried to comfort him.

Once the cancer diagnosis came everything changed and the treatment and care was amazing, especially as by that time he was too weak to have the chemo he needed and the cancer was taking over, it was very frightening. His treatment and care has continued in a private hospital set aside for oncology and he will have a scan tomorrow.

I feel a bit uncomfortable with all this hero worshipping of the NHS as an organisation, but there is no doubt the vast majority of the staff are dedicated and very good at what they do, and I am grateful to them. I hope that lessons are learned by all of us too and the likes of the people I saw in A and E with sore throats and cystitis realise what the emergency services are really for.

@Orangeblossom78 the NEWS2 score is validated for monitoring hospital in-patients and there have been longstanding concerns about using it to assess whether patients require hospital admission, pre Covid.
It’s also based on a wide range of illnesses but not validated for Covid. It has been recognised this week that Covid does not behave like many other illnesses and many hospitals are now adjusting their assessment processes as the most recent evidence suggests that it probably isn’t as good at identifying Covid patients who are deteriorating or at risk of doing so.

I agree, but it's a complete taboo to criticise the NHS and you'll be flamed.