AIBU to get a bit fucked off at having to protect the NHS?

[Santaclauswhosthat]

This is a healthcare system I've paid into all my life. I don't think everyone who works in it is a hero and the vast majority of them aren't underpaid. It's ranked 16th in the world and has the worst cancer outcomes for any developed country. It's not very good. Nonetheless it's the only healthcare system open to me right now. But I can't access it. My operation had been cancelled and I can't get a consultant appointment. The GPs aren't seeing patients face to face. I've already had one tumour removed that was on the turn. I'm worried that I may have another. I have no way of finding out if this is the case. A family member has already died of covid 19 after being denied treatment for three days during which repeated calls to the ambulance service were made whereupon his mother was told she should only ring again if his lips turned blue. He is dead. Right now. The NHS didn't protect him. It isn't protecting me either. What is the point of the NHS, exactly? Most clinics are closed or running at half mast. GPs aren't seeing anyone. NHS staff get shopping hours and free food and fuck knows what else and we are all dying protecting them.

NHS staff get shopping hours and free food and fuck knows what else and we are all dying protecting them.

• We never asked for supermarket privileges, or free food. A lot of us are embarrassed by the whole thing. We don't need free food, we need proper PPE.
• NHS staff like nurses and doctors get pretty much no say in cancelling services to free up capacity. I would much rather be doing my regular job instead of working on a covid ward right now. I don't have any choice though.
• At least 129 health and social care workers have died from covid so far, in just over a month.

Sorry but you are mad with the wrong people. Thank the bloody Tories and those who support them for this mess the NHS is in. My parents have worked within the NHS for a combination of 84 years, and the absolute majority are working their fingers to the bone, putting themselves at risk every day to ensure people are seen.
You want to be mad?? You write a strongly worded letter to our shit show of a government.
But I am sorry for what you are going through. I have lost people too, tests are coming back inconclusive, and two of my children are ill. Its a hard bloody time...Love and healthy wishes to all.

You are and aren't BU. The NHS in itself isn't a thing to protect, it's its capacity to treat that we need to protect.

Also you can't say that NHS staff = NHS and blame any individual staff member. We don't necessarily agree with everything that is being done. I'm a nurse and I personally disagree with free food being provided, gp and dental services being reduced, ambulances not coming in situations like your relatives, and may other aspects of this. I think elective surgery should resume asap. I also don't need the special shopping hour but that's a business decision for the supermarket and nothing to do with the actual NHS.

OP sadly I think this is the plan

They see covid as a great opportunity to run down the nhs and then they will reserve it for the least well off and ask others to take health insurance.

I'm sorry for your loss.
It absolutely is a scandal that we are using blue lips as some kind of determination for getting a paramedic out. That's not the fault of the front line though. It is a fault of the people who determine the funding, the commissioning model and the drivers for change or preparation. The government have chosen to reorganise the NHS, create an internal market, under fund services and fail to follow advice on preparedness.
Bursaries were cut, hospitals run at capacity. The only way to cope was by reducing everything to the bare mimimum.

I think people are unrealistic to expect that the NHS can save everyone. They can't.

If you want the NHS to improve then it needs to be better funded. If staff aren't underpaid, then what explanation is there for the massive shortage of doctors and nurses?

Anger about NHS workers getting an hour's shopping slot is totally misdirected.

If you want to be angry, be angry at everyone who has supported governments who prop up banks and wealthy individuals at the expense of the NHS. Without them we might have an NHS that was staffed and equipped to provide care to more people.

Sorry for your loss, but I think you are directing your anger at the wrong people.

The NHS has been underfunded and mismanaged for years.

Our local A&E staff told Dh last year that as a unit they all work for an agency, rather than for the NHS directly, and that the bill for their wages was therefore 1/4 higher!

How that is good business, I'll never know!

NHS shopping hours are busier than at normal times, it’s to give us a chance to go around our unsocial shifts

How did you go shopping before Covid?

That does sound rough and I can understand anger.

GPs are still seeing people however, especial if not a respiratory condition so don't believe the hype phone up and see what they can offer you.

Regards getting an ambulance at the moment, in times of high demand triage must occur so that ther limited resources are put to best use. Telephone triage is very difficult and they after are absolutely overwhelmed by people who just feel a bit unwell and want checking out. The no send policy for 999 is not new, it just hasn't been used so often that most people aren't aware of it.

Even if you get an ambulance currently we're refusing to transport to hospital unless there's a medical need, we used to take patients who had a sensation of shortness of breath, but now that's pretty much irrelevant as everyone does. I'd take a patient with blue lips through so that bit was good advice. I'd also add in "unable to complete a sentence between breaths, too weak to move from bed/chair to get to the toilet for example, new confusion, unable to wake them up, coughing up blood...

So sorry you to hear that OP

NHS =
No longer fit for purpose.

"Protect the NHS" =
you should stay home to die ( you are not important enough / young enough / free of pre-existing conditions-enough to merit treatment in hospital). if you try, 111 won't let you access care.

We have to save the NHS where other countries have health services to save the people.

And then the nurses start dancing around and film it for social media.

You couldn't make it up.

The NHS needs complete reform and we need to learn from successful countries how to go about it.

How did you go shopping before Covid?

It obviously wasn't an issue prior to covid. We work long shifts and undertake a lot of overtime to plug the gaps due to so many colleagues needing to isolate with the virus. We face this virus every day to save lives risking our own and our families as well. That i can plan an opportunity when will be slightly easier to get my shopping doesn't feel like too much of a liberty.

I'm so sorry to hear a bout your situation and your loss. I think it's awful that these newly built hospitals are sitting pretty much empty. Politician on tv keeps on saying that everyone who needs help is given it when people are dying at home literally too exhausted to breathe. Yet others say they've had amazing care, is it a postcode lottery? A pre-exisiting condition thing? What is preventing people from receiving care when all this capacity to care for them has been created for them?

And then the nurses start dancing around and film it for social media

I take great exception to this. When you have silent 12 hours dealing with distress, heartbreak and death anything thst helps morale is a bonus. And for some people it's this. Nurses are also allowed breaks. I'm actually equally sad and pissed off at views like this. But sadly not surprised.

What is preventing people from receiving care when all this capacity to care for them has been created for them?

In the case of the Nightingale hospital in London they turned patients away because they didnt have enough trained staff.

Laguna nurses could do it, no one is policing that

But uploading it to social media could only really go one way.

"The NHS needs complete reform and we need to learn from successful countries how to go about it."

That maybe but the only likely reform will ve additional charges for use. The public need to decide what they want the service to be and fund it appropriately. NY perspective is 999/ emergency service. The number of people who try to use this (both now and prior to covid) for completely inappropriate calls is astonishing "I've had a cough for 5 days now and my gp says it doesn't need antibiotics what do you think... my back pain is slightly worse than normal... I twisted my ankle a week ago and now wondering if it could be broken... im having trouble sleeping... I feel tired.... my toilet is leaking and it's gone mouldy im worried I'll catch an infection...." I've been to them ask and worse on 999. Before covid nearly half the jobs we'd see in a shift would be of this ill. This is why they have to say no.

I don't see anything wrong with uploading it to social media. If you mean it gives some people a chance to have another go at nurses then you're right. But hey we're all dancing and getting into supermarkets early, so worth it! It's churlish. Unless the people criticising have been in their situation which clearly they're not then they have no right to judge. But human nature being what it is they do.

Why do people take it so personally and immediately leap to thinking any criticism of the NHS is having a go at it's staff? It's not.

I work for the NHS and agree with a lot of OPs points. And realise she's not having a go at me!

I guess it depends in what area you work in but I don't know a single colleague who hasn't complained or moaned at some point about the way the NHS works, is funded and individuals being underpaid or overpaid. Which is rarely a reflection of how hard their job is.

Blame the decision makers, the politicians

It isn't the politicians who make the decisions.

It's NHS management and senior staff, who never seem to be able to take any responsibility and always blame the government

The NHS needs complete reform and we need to learn from successful countries how to go about it.

Am sure there are aspects that could be improved as there will be in any huge outfit, but the primary problem imo is in the the UK % of GDP spent on healthcare is less than many other models lauded on here.

I appreciate not all agree but I am relieved on this thread many are aware NHS is underfunded. I have seen a few threads on here that v few will acknowledge the NHS needs more funding.

@MrsKypp

“We have to save the NHS where other countries have health services to save the people”

This is a very good point! We are being told to stay at home far too long until we are losing lives, where as hospitals are coming out saying they are empty Literally just letting people die!

I’m grateful for the NHS, but it isn’t without it’s faults, unfortunately those faults are not the employees faults, it’s the government.

Your justified with the way you feel Op

I’m so sorry for your tough times & loss

This is a very good point! We are being told to stay at home far too long until we are losing lives, where as hospitals are coming out saying they are empty confused Literally just letting people die!

@Leeahley, if you read haggisonthehills posts on the previous page you will see there are now moves to open up hospital more for non CoVid patients and the reasons why for the decisions up until now.

YABU. Protect the NHS isnt about the people, it's about reducing the pressure on the entire system.

What you have gone through is awful but it is not the fault of the frontline staff, it is the fault of the infastructure. Everyone has paid into the service but the amount people pay in is nowhere close to what most people will "use" in their lifetime and I would much rather have a system that is free at point of use that is currently limited but will "reopen" to its previous capacity than a system whereby you can only be treated if you can afford the insurance copay or the full cost of treatment upfront.

A family member of mine died two days ago due to CV. She was already elderly and had many health issues so the CV only really accelerated her death. The hospital didnt want to take her, not because they didnt want to, but because they are struggling to cope and if there was a chance of her being nursed by the trained care home staff in the appropriate PPE (who were more than willing to do so) then they didnt want to move her from where she was comfortable and cared for into a hospital that is overstretched. In our case the way we "Protected the NHS" was by allowing our family member to die in her own bed and not take up a bed in hospital which could then be used by someone else who needed it and didnt have trained professionals already taking care of them.

How did you go shopping before Covid?

I work in a supermarket, we used to be open 6am-midnight. Now we are open 8am-8pm as are most other supermarkets in my town. The 24hr supermarket down the road is now open 8am-10pm. It's not difficult to think that people who are working 12hr shifts may struggle to get to the supermarket and do a full shop when stores are opened on shorter hours and they would have to queue to get in.

In our local hospital, the oncology department is one of the only units open to patients right now. They have their own theatres . However, by their condition, their patients are high risk and that awful balance of patient treatment versus risk to patients has had to be made in some cases. Having experienced both pre and post coronavirus hospital care, our experience is that this has brought out the absolute best in the nurses. The difference is palpable. They have been dreadful in the past but absolutely spot on now. The doctors have been the ones to let the side down and have needed kicks from the nurses to sort themselves out. The private sector will be needed to get things back on track when units start opening as many operations, tests and procedures have been delayed or cancelled and they all need doing.
Your experiences sound dreadful and your grief and anger at the whole system is clear. There have been instances where I have taken on the consultant and asked the questions they don't want to answer or to push them to do something rather than faff about. I wonder if the outcome would be the same if I hadn't.
Sending virtual hugs for this difficult time.

YANBU.

"Protect the NHS" is something healthy people can and should do by doing our best to avoid catching or spreading Covid-19, and avoiding other risky activities too.

It should not mean denying essential treatment to people who are ill. When it comes to diseases like cancer where delays to diagnosis and treatment kill, said diagnosis and treatment should not be stopping.