AIBU to get a bit fucked off at having to protect the NHS?

[Santaclauswhosthat]

This is a healthcare system I've paid into all my life. I don't think everyone who works in it is a hero and the vast majority of them aren't underpaid. It's ranked 16th in the world and has the worst cancer outcomes for any developed country. It's not very good. Nonetheless it's the only healthcare system open to me right now. But I can't access it. My operation had been cancelled and I can't get a consultant appointment. The GPs aren't seeing patients face to face. I've already had one tumour removed that was on the turn. I'm worried that I may have another. I have no way of finding out if this is the case. A family member has already died of covid 19 after being denied treatment for three days during which repeated calls to the ambulance service were made whereupon his mother was told she should only ring again if his lips turned blue. He is dead. Right now. The NHS didn't protect him. It isn't protecting me either. What is the point of the NHS, exactly? Most clinics are closed or running at half mast. GPs aren't seeing anyone. NHS staff get shopping hours and free food and fuck knows what else and we are all dying protecting them.

Really?

Yes. BovaryX . Really

And likewise let's hope your treatment was typical.

Doctor bashing is always allowed on MN isn’t it.

And nurse bashing. Everything’s our fault, all the time. Surgery cancelled? Yeah we did that. Clinic cancelled? That must have been us too. Did anyone stop and think that many of us are also patients with our own health conditions, and our own operations and appointments have also been cancelled.

Never have I seen a profession berated so much for daring to speak to our colleagues, have a drink, or wanting a break. Yet so many people in many other jobs spend their day doing all of these things.

@Mintychoc1 I don't think anyone here is comparing the UK to countries such as Ecuador or much of Africa but they are reasonably comparing the UK health service with France, Germany, Australia, etc.

I find your assertion that there is tremendous middle class arrogance on this thread. I assume no Dr has ever behaved in an arrogant or dismissive way to a patient in the UK.

FWIW we have a second home in France and have occasionally had to access services through the mutuelle system on a paid/insured basis. I can assure you that the level of helpfulness and basic good manners is much higher than that found at the average UK GP practice or A&E department. We often attend the private GP service at our local private hospital. All those in the NHS who repeatedly bleat that private care in the UK is worse than or no better than the NHS that isn't so.

Private colonoscopy - better anaesthetic/pain relieving drugs, anaesthetist in attendance, procedure done by consultant who gave me the results before I left. 1:1 care in recovery. Nobody raised their voice or spoke to me as though I was an ingrate or thick.

likewise let's hope your treatment was typical

Why on earth would you imagine that it isn't? My experience is not an anomaly. It is how functioning health care works in the developed world. Beyond the UK.

Do you have any concept at all what a functioning health service looks like? I pick up the phone, make an appointment with a doctor of my choice at a time convenient to me.

Agreed. My mum is from another European country and still can’t get over the faff that is waiting weeks for a GP appointment to be referred somewhere else and then wait another couple of weeks to be seen by them. Before she moved to the UK, you could make an appointment directly with a gynaecologist, dermatologists etc. Children didn’t see GPs, they were registered with paediatricians. Dental health was also covered under their national health scheme. This was over 30 years ago! But you see it in many aspects of British life - from housing, to health, roads and infrastructure, we are very willing as a nation to make do with a lower standard - while paying extortionate prices for things like houses all the way down to food and toilet paper! - because complaining is seen as rude and ungrateful and clearly we don’t have any idea what ‘value for money’ really is. I don’t know why so many posters are unwilling to take those who have lived abroad at their word. It’s a delusional way of thinking that is very widespread in the UK - we think we are better off than others and ahead of everyone else, but actually when it comes to 21st century standards of living we are a lagging behind massively.

Not everyone who gets cancer has abused their body. I run, am slim, don't drink a great deal and eat healthily.
Of course not and I never said it 2as the case. My point is that if people looked after themselves better, there would be less relying on the nhs and there would be enough money and staff to treat people who need it.

Your contribution to this thread is to dismiss valid criticism of a health care system which is failing to treat patients
Except that the criticism isn't valid scientifically. It's based on a selected individual experiences which doesn't make the criticism valid.

Of course people will have some poor experience. This is inevitable. I had some myself. I also had excellent care.

The point is that as a public service, treating a nation, the nhs is an excellent cost effective healthcare system.

And just to add, I dont work for the nhs, nor does anyone in my family.

Have to agree with the op. The NHS has been on its knees for years and is fundamentally not fit for purpose. My young son nearly ended up in a wheelchair because of consistent negligence by the NHS over a two year period. I have also been requesting for treatment for myself for nearly five years. Finally had a scan done and because of the delay irreparable damage has been caused. This is happening every day in the NHS. Also, I am sorry, but some NHS staff are not fit for purpose and provide appalling care. Sorry, but these are facts.

can’t get over the faff that is waiting weeks for a GP appointment to be referred somewhere else and then wait another couple of weeks to be seen by them.

If you think that's bad, try getting a NHS hearing aid. It took me 9 months to get one, that was after 3 visits to GP, 3 separate visits to separate depts in different towns, for a hearing scan, review appt and fitting, all of which required a waiting list for the next step.

The following time, I went to Specsavers instead - all done and dusted in a single appointment, on the NHS!

Why on earth would you imagine that it isn't?

In the same way you question my experience.

it is how functioning health care works in the developed world. Beyond the Uk.

That's a very blanket statement.

I don’t know why so many posters are unwilling to take those who have lived abroad at their word. It’s a delusional way of thinking that is very widespread in the UK - we think we are better off than others and ahead of everyone else, but actually when it comes to 21st century standards of living we are a lagging behind massively

I agree Pinkberry I think there is an attitude in the UK that people should be grateful for substandard treatment. The relationship between patient and the NHS is inverted. The patient is exhorted to protect the health care system while the health care system cancels treatments and is effectively to accessible. The level of denial and defensiveness on this thread shows a bizarre compulsion to deny things are better in insurance based systems and deny there are serious problems with the status quo.

@sleepingpup
Well people in the UK will be able to judge whether your 3 week time scale of discovery of lump to radical treatment is typical of the NHS.

Blame Brexit Boris. The NHS has been underfunded, staff lowly paid and unsupported by government. The Cygnus exercise in 2016 exposed how woefully unprepared we have been for a pandemic.

My sister works for the NHS. She says virtually everyday there are companies in there giving all the staff free meals, she refuses to have them because as she says she's lucky enough to be still working and on full pay.
People are going hungry, these companies should be helping them, it's ridiculous!

A couple local to use donated £20'000 to a restaurant to feed the NHS staff while our local food bank is begging for food

The NHS helps the poor. I am not sure most of us are happy to keep paying so much towards it. These are the percentages our income tax goes to - health 20% and welfare not including state pensions 23% so about 43% on many things most of us do not use - NHS and state benefits. Perhaps they could let us all halve our income tax rate by opting out of NHS and welfare. Or if we start charging for the NHS may be we can start reducing that 5% we spend just servicing national debt interest which is more than the whole transport costs.

Welfare (23.5%)
Health (20.2%)
State Pensions (12.8%)
Education (11.8%)
Defence (5.3%)
National Debt Interest (5.1%)
Transport (4.3%)
Public Order and Safety (4.3%)
Business and Industry (3.6%)
Government Administration (2.1%)
Housing and Utilities, like street lighting (1.6%)
Environment (1.5%)
Culture, like sports, libraries, museums (1.5%)
Overseas Aid (1.2%)
UK Contribution to the EU Budget (1%) [ the latter presumably is stopping soon]

@LisaSimpsonsbff

Well said, Lisa. I think the OP is perfectly entitled to her experiences and feel aggrieved. Whereas the opinions of many are easy to pull apart.

The NHS has been given a cult-like status over the last few weeks and also this talk of 'angels' is sickening.

The NHS as an institution in this country has its faults and flaws. The OPs experiences are hers and hers alone, and all we have is a rhetoric that is so common across the country. Telling her to direct her anger at the Tories is a poor response to a grieving poster.

Of course shes angry, seeing the worshipping that's going on and the self indulged dancing on social media. Of course people being shamed for not clapping in their communities isnt starting to creep people out.

It is sad that 129 people have died, but it is a pandemic, that is a lost number in terms of over a million that are employed.

There are abuses of the NHS, one of the largest drains on resources is type 2 diabetes. That's lifestyle choices of poor living. So it's not all the fault of the NHS.

But, the adulation, the clapping, the hero worshipping does need to stop. From the outside looking in, it isn't a good look..

OP, sending you condolences and support across the air waves.

I know, it’s fucked up. I work for the NHS and I agree with everything BovaryX has said on all these threads.

The current state of affairs is appalling and I don’t believe the NHS is fit for purpose with or without covid.

Blame Brexit Boris. The NHS has been underfunded, staff lowly paid and unsupported by government.

The NHS was just as bad during the Brown/Blair years of trebling NHS funding! Both my mother and father in law suffered awful neglect in the NHS in 2008 and 2010 respectively. The incompetence was staggering, even down to putting in a chest drain in the wrong place and them not actually noticing!

A friend of mine in Ireland had a radical mastectomy a couple of weeks before the shutdown there. She drives herself to her chemo sessions in a major hospital and home again. There was no question of putting her chemo off

A friend of mine in England was diagnosed with prostate cancer and was due to start radiotherapy the Tuesday after lockdown.

He received it on that day and three times a week since. He has to go to a building the other side of the street from the hospital.

Should we draw conclusions on the state of the two healthcare systems on just these two instances!

The NHS helps the poor

Yes. And not just the poor. I would n't call myself 'poor'.

Well people in the UK will be able to judge whether your 3 week time scale of discovery of lump to radical treatment is typical of the NHS.

What country do you live in BovaryX ?

I know, it’s fucked up. I work for the NHS and I agree with everything BovaryX has said on all these threads. The current state of affairs is appalling and I don’t believe the NHS is fit for purpose with or without covid

Cheers rosie I think there must be alot of NHS who share your analysis. Because of the cult like quasi religious status of the NHS, some treat critics and whistleblowers as heretics. And that ensures a paralysis where there should be change.

@Pinkblueberry

Excellent post.

I too come from a country where we pick up the phone, book and are seen. We paid for it through our insurance which is the same as the national insurance here. We just have a choice of who we pay insurance too.

In overall terms, housing, health and the welfare state in the UK, is sub standard and the people settle for sub standard.

I agree with your sentiments but it is important to make a distiction between the system and those who work in it; many of whom are well aware of the issues. I work in a hospice and unfortunately hear regularly of NHS failings; the care received seems to be the luck of the draw. Yes there are brilliant doctors and surgeons out there but there are also some who shouldn't be in the job; I certainly wouldn't be placing blind faith in anyone treating me. There is currently rampant hypocrisy at large with this whole issue. We are bombarded with messages to save lives, but whose lives? Yours? I have clients who can't currently access the care they need. Of course, when they die the statistics will be buried, it will only be the Covid-19 stats that will dominate the headlines. & don't get me started on the care and money given to the mental health of the children of this country which is a national scandal. But again, what voice do they have? A few deaths here and there, so what. Al Jazeera has written a very good article about some of this called 'Boris Johnson, The Hollow Priest of the NHS' which is worth checking out. I really hope you get the support you need soon.

Indeed Xenia. When the Director of our MH Service told me MH came under different funding streams to the NHS she looked askance when I pointed out that wasn't detailed on my tax statement and further that the CCG received central funds and then commissioned services from the NHS pot. I got pursed lips because, you know, a scummy parent referred to as "now mum" is not supposed to be intelligent and is not supposed to question the system. Well I'm questioning.