AIBU to expect year 11 DD to......

[themueslicamel]

.....Get on with some homework?

Anyone here struggling with their year 11?

I get that having the rug pulled from under their feet was brutal re school and GCSE's but DD refuses to get up, argues, and is not attempting to keep up with the subjects she will need for A levels.

Please tell me your yr 11 is the same!

I completely get why year 11s aren’t bothered about doing any work. Let’s face it, most of us, between GCSEs and 6th form, spent the summer having fun, doing nothing, spending time with friends. It’s not your dds fault her ‘summer’ has started early. I would push for them to find a hobby or to learn something though, I agree they shouldnt be doing nothing, but think pushing for school work might be a bit pointless now. I like the idea of sign language, or a foreign language. Learning a skill, sewing for the nhs, knitting blankets for baby units, that kind of thing to pass the time as it’s not great to spend all day in bed watching tv and screens (which is what teenage dd would do here if I let her-then she moans she has a headache and can’t get to sleep).

As a teacher, I can see both sides. Of 72 exam entered students I teach, 6 have been returning work to me (online) since we moved to online teaching. To those saying “what’s the point, exams are cancelled”, well, I know where I teach we have been told to use mock exams, class tests and their effort levels in returning online work to gauge estimated grades (which will now be what they are allocated as a final grade) so it might be worth checking the procedure in your area - I know many pupils who have gone up or down grades since school closed based on their engagement with online tasks and how motivated they have been - not necessarily their marks in the work.
If, however the grades are decided then the work won’t make a difference this year so i can see why a pupil would find it hard to get motivated. Provided she has covered the whole course and knows it, it shouldn’t impact her on A-levels, but personally I think it’s a good opportunity for her to make sure she really knows the stuff before taking it at AS or A level, otherwise she may get to October break or Christmas and feel she has forgotten a lot!
I would have a chat with her or look into it with the school / council to see what their policy will be for awarding grades, if the work they’re being given now will be used (or not) - if so, your DD needs to decide whether she has already done enough to get the grade she wants, or whether to make the most of the opportunity to boost her grade without cramming for an exam..
Sorry if that’s a bit fluffy, it’s a lot more complicated than “schools are closed tell her not to bother”, but I totally empathise, and she is definitely not the only one! I’ve told any concerned parents who’ve contacted me that I understand the struggle of getting an unmotivated kid to work when they can’t see the point, and we will ensure they aren’t disadvantaged next year (though doing the work can only be an advantage!). I hope this helps somewhat!

I know this has been said on so many other threads, but it would be grossly unfair if ANY pupils Grades are affected by anything a student might have done, or not done after schools shut down. Life is unequal enough, without any teacher suggesting a pupil can improve their grades because they live in a house with enough broadband, and enough devices, and enough structure and support for them to be able to work at home, whereas those pupils without their benefits can't.

Yes, I think it would be great for all the pupils if they could be persuaded to engage with some work to prepare for A-levels, but realistically, it isn't going to happen for many / the majority, so all 6th form teachers will know they will be starting from that point when they start their courses in the Autumn.

To those saying “what’s the point, exams are cancelled”, well, I know where I teach we have been told to use mock exams, class tests and their effort levels in returning online work to gauge estimated grades (which will now be what they are allocated as a final grade) so it might be worth checking the procedure in your area - I know many pupils who have gone up or down grades since school closed based on their engagement with online tasks and how motivated they have been - not necessarily their marks in the work.

I know the policy isn't your fault but I think that's so so unfair. Not everyone will have access to computers or decent internet during lockdown. Many teenagers are probably helping to look after younger siblings while their parents work. Many will be having to share computers with working parents and study space with younger siblings.

Punishing them further by knocking their grades is really poor

amy

That’s totally against the advice of unions and the exam boards. We are not supposed to be taking into account anything post closure.

I wouldn’t make a Year 11 do work right now, but our lot will be given transition work to complete for September for their A Levels.

My son's 6th form college are providing work for Y11s in prep for A levels if they want to do it but more to find out about the subjects rather than full blown preparation.

Would she be interested in a Futurelearn or Openlearn course? Might be something for her UCAS form later on (and yes I've suggested this to my Y12 and yes the xbox is a lot more interesting - admittedly he does have work/video lessons provided by college so is doing something).

I think it is really difficult to find any motivation after the rug has been pulled out from under you. Not sure 16 or 17 year me would have been massively motivated to do work, either although if Futurelearn had been available to me, I would have made use of it (I think).

I know many pupils who have gone up or down grades since school closed based on their engagement with online tasks and how motivated they have been - not necessarily their marks in the work

This does seem unfair. Fine to put marks up if they are making a massive effort. But I got all As in my A level mocks - it would have been very unfair to then punish me for not doing work in lockdown. I don't think predicted grades should be based on work in lockdown. Also, basing on motivation and effort is being a bit "stiff upper lip". Lots of people hate lockdown and find it really difficult Y11s and Y13s, I don't think it's for teachers to wreck their future anymore by reducing their predicted grades. How can you punish someone for not revising for non-existent exams?

I am quite disgusted actually and glad my child isn't at your school.

I’ve possibly not explained it awfully well, as I knew my message was already long and the whole thing is awfully complicated.
I think to say you’re disgusted it a bit OTT, and should also point out I’m not based in England so it’s different exam boards, unions and even government leads on education - that’s why I’ve said I’d check with your school before taking it to be the same.
When I said about grades changing, it’s unfortunate, but we have conversations with each pupil every 4 weeks or so to discuss their target grades. After the prelim / mock exam, as an example, I had 2 pupils fail spectacularly but insist they had it worked hard enough and would pull their socks up for the final exam. It’s not unheard of, some kids genuinely do pull it out of the bag for summer exams, some say it to get you off their back. Either way, they have the final exam to work towards and it’s up to them how much effort they put in, we can only guide them and help out but not do it for them.
Both the pupils I’m talking about were given a working grade of a C, much higher than their prelim, based on trust that they wanted to work towards that for the exam. One has handed in every single piece of work up until Friday (that’s when they would have finished for study leave, and so would have had work to do anyway - we aren’t setting more now as they would be off timetable) and has been in constant contact asking for help & feedback. So now if the exam board ask for evidence that this pupil deserves a C despite getting below 25% in the January exam, I have it there. The other pupil hasn’t handed in anything, responded to contact saying they didn’t see the point in the work, and so if I was asked to prove they deserve a C despite their January result, I have nothing.. in this case, we have had a chat with the pupil and explained that we will have to use their mock exam grade with greater weighting.
Otherwise it devalues the whole awards system this year, which is why the whole thing is so difficult.
If your daughter is happy she has already done enough to get the grades she wants then I completely agree that I wouldn’t be worrying. If she feels she underperformed compared to how she would have done, I would look into it and see if she can do anything to prove she would have done better.
I’m maybe still not explaining it awfully well, I'm trying to make it as black and white as possible when really it's a 50 shades of grey scenario. Kids can't and won't be disadvantaged by the whole C-19 thing, basically...
I will say, I think it's extremely naive to believe teachers are wrecking kids futures. I feel like that's calling our professionalism into question which is uncalled for, though quite common here on MN unfortunately.

What's the point?

ds's school is sending out some online work and he is completing it and also doing some past papers. The school is putting no pressure on dc to submit work, and many don't, but they are being encouraged to and if they do the work is given feedback.

For us the point is, revision for his exams would have been consolidating his NAT5 work and firming up his knowledge in preparation for starting his Scottish Highers. If he misses this step he will be less prepared for next year.

Secondly, he is less stressed and anxious because he feels he has some ownership and control over what he can do to mitigate, a little, the impact of the lockdown on his education instead of it being completed wasted time.

Obviously for some children it will be more difficult, but I feel for your average student, who has just had GCSEs/NAT5s cancelled, not encouraging them to continue to engage with their education (whether provided by school or self led in the form of subject revision in preparation for next year) is doing them a disservice.

@amysara24 how do you know this increase in commitment has been achieved by the pupil at home? For all you know an older sibling/parent is contributing to the work and this is why you could be be seeing an improvement?

If a student has a better working grade but flunked the prelims, both, along with previous work should be used to determine the estimated grade. If that evidence is not available I disagree the approach should be to manufacture new evidence during lockdown. It is unfair unless ALL students at ALL schools can still work towards providing evidence and possibly improve what their estimated/evidenced exams grade would be.

The SQA have implied this, no further work is required after lockdown, but really need to make it crystal clear to all schools this is not allowed to ensure it is a level playing field and this years grades are not viewed by all as completely unreliable.

I suppose the same is said for any homework set, it could be a sibling/friend/tutor rather than the pupil themselves. The work we’ve been collecting has been from January and continued through the past few weeks rather than being manufactured specifically. It’s more that we didn’t stop what we were already doing rather than starting something new.
Regardless of what way things are decided, some pupils come off better than others. I’m not saying I agree or disagree with it but there isn’t much we can do but adhere to the instructions we’re given!

My year 11 child isn't doing any school work

Where are you, amy?

My yr11 has finished the coursework she has to hand in and that's it. There's nothing else for her to do, and like others have said, she'd currently only be revising for exams anyway. She's chosen sixth form subjects that she can't really do any work for anyway until September. It's been a long year already with extra morning and evening lessons so quite frankly, she's just enjoying the break.

I’m not based in England so it’s different exam boards, unions and even government leads on education - that’s why I’ve said I’d check with your school before taking it to be the same.

Hmmm.

I would have a chat with her or look into it with the school / council to see what their policy will be for awarding grades, if the work they’re being given now will be used (or not) - if so, your DD needs to decide whether she has already done enough to get the grade she wants, or whether to make the most of the opportunity to boost her grade without cramming for an exam..

Also hmmm. This is in no way, shape or form how things are being done in Britain. It's all clearly set out by the government that work and effort after the schools closed is not relevant to the GCSE and A'level grades.

I suppose the same is said for any homework set

In normal circumstances it is much much less likely they have been getting assistance with homework as they wouldn't know back then it would count towards their grade and they also would later need to prove themselves independently in exam conditions. Due to the checks and measures the only person they would be cheating would be themselves.

Now there are no such checks and they also have the knowledge this will count towards a grade the likelihood of not only trying much harder, getting outside help or even using the internet is more probable. This is not what other schools are doing as it is grossly unfair.

Realistically, it is unfair only to the students in your school. As they will be graded based on your schools previous performance. If you rank this individual higher than they have previously performed or there is evidence of, another of your students could potentially and unfairly pay the price. Students cannot be marked on what they could have/would have achieved unless ALL students get the same opportunity to improve their evidence.

This is in no way, shape or form how things are being done in Britain. It's all clearly set out by the government that work and effort after the schools closed is not relevant to the GCSE and A'level grades.

Amy has mentioned prelims so I assume she is in Scotland (part of Britain!) where we have prelims (mocks), NAT5/Highers and Advanced Highers instead of GCSE/A'Levels.

Britain hasn’t set anything out - education is devolved to NI, Scotland and Wales who make their own decisions. Also, what happens re exam level awards hasn’t been dictated by the governments, it’s been largely decided by the exam boards of which there are many different ones (NICCEA, AQA, OCR, SQA etc).
I was only offering an answer to a question based on what I knew so far from personal experience, I didn’t say it was right or wrong. It’s only natural to worry about schoolwork, none of us have done this before - pupils, parents or teachers.
Having answered the original AIBU question now, I’m going to unfollow the thread before it derails as it is already has slightly and lots of false info is thrown around.
Hope this doesn’t offend, just trying to be careful how much online exposure I give myself to try and keep my own spirits up as much as possible! Have a lovely rest of the weekend everyone and stay safe 😊

My year 11 has had four solid weeks of old GCSE papers in all subjects since Easter break- next week apparently he is going to start prep work for A levels...

Also he has to sign into school every morning by 09.30 and there has been zoom lessons and groups chats. This work is not compulsory BUT is going to be used as evidence towards his grades if required by the exam board

@spfp are you in England?

Yes - am in England

@spfp is he at private school?

Yes a small independant school - Justification is that all other local Independants are doing similar and to gather info 'just in case'... Its keeping him busy tbh but not sure what the point really is other than fee justification...