to be irrationally annoyed with the furloughed?

[awaywiththecircus]

I know I am but I'm jealous that they have all day to lie in the sun, home educate their dc, bake, sew, watch TV whilst I'm busier than ever trying to do it all whilst working from home.
I heard on the radio it's going to cost £50 billion over 3 months and I feel annoyed that the economy is totally f**d because we're paying everyone's salaries, and they're at home doing nothing.
I also know none of this is anyone's fault and IABU.

In support of op, just because you aren't furloughed, it doesn't mean that your job is secure at the end of this.

My organisation is still going, all but a small % of furloughed employees are wfh, but revenue has dropped massively. The world will change forever, there is absolutely no certainty our income will return to normal once this is over.

I actually get that it's annoying and easy to feel jealous of people who are loving being furloughed and at home.

But I also get that down the line, a lot of those people may well be out of jobs and have no income ... furlough isn't forever, just a few months ... and if the economy doesn't bounce, they will be struggling mightily while you've hopefully managed to show how important your job is and will still have it.

Agree OP,

Some people are even at home on furlough on full pay with their employer topping up the shortfall.

So whilst we are working a full day they can chill out every day 9 to 6 and they are no worse off financially.

And they get annual leave on top.

And of course we will have to pay higher taxes to pay for furloughed staff wages.

Those who are working definitely have the short end of the stick.

Right but surely you're able to understand that the fact you're working right now means you're in a far securer position than people on furlough?

Whilst I agree this applies to people where the entire workforce, or an entire department or division have been furloughed, it absolutely does not apply to employees who have been furloughed when others doing the same role are still working.

Managers and employers will apply completely different criteria to each scenario. As a manager, the staff I would choose to furlough may also be the staff decide to keep if there are redundancies....The matrices you would use to make the decisions would be separate for many reasons, some of them legal.

I understand that those who have been working hard whilst their colleagues were at home on furlough might feel hard done by, but it's the kind of tough business decision senior managers are paid to make.

Rubbish! They have made decisions about who can do their job at home and who can't.

Bullshit! I've been working from home since it became apparent that keeping away from others was probably sensible. Our senior manager made the decision in late February but 75% of my team, including me have been furloughed. The ones still in have been redeployed because they have a secondary skillset, as only recently stepped up to our workstream. My company is going nowhere, my job probably is so be quiet with your nonsense!

Absolutely. The whole system of some people getting free money and others not a bean and yet all of us facing massive tax hikes next year for a decision to lock down I do not even support is pretty awful. Hopefully we might get a change to the NHS out of it and a smaller state and perhaps payment up front for NHS services for those over weight and thus at more risk of covid 19 but I won't hold my breath.

Not to high Jack your thread but my neighbours are driving me made, in their sixties and spend all day sunbathing in their garden while DH, my two children and I am grafting away in doors. 😳

I'd rather be working than furloughed. I would be concerned for my job otherwise.

The whole system of some people getting free money and others not a bean and yet all of us facing massive tax hikes next year

What's the alternative though? Would you prefer everyone be made redundant?

Agree OP. It’s one long party for a lot of people, cracking open the beers in the garden, music on, sunbathing ... meanwhile key workers are out working harder than ever for the same amount of pay. Doesn’t seem right.

Ive been furloughed.
I wont be getting 80% of my usual pay because I work in a restaurant and 30% of my earning comes from tips which are not included, even though we pay tax on them.
Im worried I wont have a job to go back to.
The company i work for should be ok but there wont be enough hours for all of us.
I need school to be open before I can return which might mean others get first dibs on the hours that are available.
Im worrying about how I will pay my bills and feed my child, and if I will ever see my colleagues again and do the job I love.
Not all sunshine and cakes here unfortunately.
Yabu.

Genuine question.

Why would you decide to furlough someone and not another? And then make the opposite decision when it comes to redundancy?

YABU
However, I don’t get the «people are not lounging around getting a tan, they are worried» yes they are worried, rightly so, but what do they do all day long? Sit on a chair in an dark room being worried or enjoy their garden / play with their kids / watch tv... ?

@AintNoMaryPoppins not true in my business

In my organisation those furloughed are those that can't go to work. I can work, but when the going gets tough, my team will get cut. Those furloughed will have a job because theirs only doesn't currently exist because of social distancing rules

Oh I can't wait to go back to work if where I work survives and listen to how much I owe everyone for them paying my wages for 3 months.

Hospitality workers aren't exactly thought of highly anyway, so yay another stick to beat us with.

When we finally come out of this are any of you going to want to go out for meals, to the pub, out for the day, to the cinema, bowling? Because this scheme is trying to make sure that the people who staff those places have a job to go back to, that at least some of these businesses survive. That there isn't sudden mass unemployment and there isn't sudden mass closure of leisure facilities for the future.

On balance, thousands of people out of work, with a reduced job pool to apply to, will be on benefits for much longer than 3 months than what it's going to cost to furlough them now with a view to as many people as possible going back to a job, because the business hasn't folded.

I appreciate that it looks like a great deal, being furloughed. For some it probably is, but it isn't for everyone and it won't be in 6 months time when people like me are then rounded on for living on benefits having lost jobs completely.

Sounds like great fun that future doesn't it? 👍

I work in the travel industry and there is a good chance much of the industry won't survive this. Me and all of my thousands of furloughed industry colleagues would much rather have a secure job than time off.

@LaurieMarlow Why would you decide to furlough someone and not another? And then make the opposite decision when it comes to redundancy?

I am a senior manager and have had to make decisions about my department. I was given absolute carte blanche about who I chose to give furlough to, and that absolutely will not be the case if it comes to redundancies.

With redundancies you have a set list of factors you are able/unable to apply. So, as well as things like skills/experience/flexibility/length of service (very important from financial point of view) you can also include things like sickness absence and disciplinary record.

I gave furlough to my low paid admin staff.

I gave furlough to four staff members who are single parents and would struggle to come in with their DC not in school.

I gave furlough to two staff members who are older, in their sixties, as one is quite anxious and the other uses public transport to get to work.

The redundancy criteria would not result in the same set of people losing their jobs. It's as simple as that.

I do understand that's a bitter pill to swallow for people who have already had to work whilst their colleagues are sitting at home, on 80% pay (or in our case full pay as we top up) but I can honestly say that two of the people I have in the office at the moment would be the first people out of the door if we applied the standard redundancy procedures.

You think people furlough would not rather be working??? You make it sound like they’re being lazy

Again, it's not the fault of the employees that they've been furloughed. There is a lockdown going on.

It's difficult for everyone. I'm wfh which I am grateful I can do but work in education and many of my colleagues are working very limited hours on full pay while I am still working full time.

But I recognise it is not helpful to think about this too much and just focus on my own life and job.

@LaurieMarlow This The furlough system means that employers have already made decisions about who’s expendable and who isn’t is nonsense for a number of reasons including:

1. Some people can't do their jobs now for example field sales people, but they will absolutely be needed when businesses reopen (even if not so many of them immediately).

1. Some more junior or less expert e.g. Admin roles, have been furloughed and more expert, and expensive, resources are covering those roles as they still need doing. That won't continue indefinitely.

1. If people are expendable now then they were before, businesses aren't charities.

So don't try to frighten furloughed workers who may be worried enough already.

I'm classed as an essential worker so am still working (Nhs not front line though) Working harder than ever as some colleagues are self isolating so I'm picking up the slack. My brother and his wife are furloughed with job safety guaranteed and are enjoying the sunny weather. Having lie ins, bbqs and doing diy.

Of course there will always be some who come out of it really well.

My DS was just about to quit his job as the virus arrived so I talked him out of it, knowing his workplace would be one of the first to close. He did one more shift before being put on furlough. So he is now on the sofa earning 80% of his salary instead of the zero he would be earning if he had quit.

I can understand why you feel the way you do, and I must confess I’m having a lovely time furloughed, but there’s an underlying worry, which is stronger every day, that I might not have a job at the end of this. I probably wouldn’t now without the government stepping in. I work in the airline industry, which is probably one of the last industries that will restart, and I can’t see furloughing going on for more than a few weeks.

I agree - we absolutely still need the furlough staff