Does an arrogant, horrible and untrusting micromanager boss know they are so?

[anon12185]

I nc for this although I will almost certainly out myself with details but meh.

Like most of the world right now, I am working from home. My team leader is extremely picky. He tracks changes and red pens everything as standard, I have to send him draft emails which he always pulls apart. I have worked under him for just over 2 years and he started as manager a month before I started.

Since the working from home he has become unbearable. We now have a 1:1 every week (it was every 3) but have to create and fill in ridiculous databases about our work. So it takes me 1/5 of my actual working hours to complete these databases detailing every single action (e.g. if I want to send an email I need to fill a whole form about it, what I will say, how I will action a response, huh I might not even get a response - then on top I have to send him the draft and I'm not joking when I say I have never ever written anything that didn't need changing).

Then we go through this database it in a zoom meeting.

Every week since lockdown he has 'perfected' the format which means adding more ludicrous elements. I had the meeting this week and requested unpaid leave. I just can't stand it - I'm working a full day then logging back on for an hour or two just to get on top of the tasks. But even though he agreed to the leave I know really I can't afford the time off (work wise, I don't want my colleagues to get even more grief).

It feels such a huge waste of resources and time and there is not a shortage of work for us (maybe for the manager) I'm filling in forms to justify when and how I will do my work (that I cannot do because of the time filling forms) and I know many in my team feel the same. One has just today gone sick, another is so ill, all of us would leave if we could.

Sorry for the rant. Any ideas what to do? Anyone else in the same position?

Sounds awful! What industry are you in? Have you been able to speak with colleagues under a different manager but in a comparable role as to whether this is the norm in your company? If it is, I suggest you get the hell out!

If not, could you subtly raise it with a contemporary of his? Is there a friendly ear elsewhere in the organisation?

I've had a manager I've needed to "manage" previously. I used to give him enough to micromanage to keep him busy (eg go to him with a problem which I knew the answer to) but keep the rest of my work well away from him.

I have a micromanaging boss, she just can't help herself from taking over my work despite the fact that I'm very experienced. She makes me feel like a trainee!

I've tried to broach it in a positive way but just got a load of abuse back about how i was upsetting her/criticising her and no one else had a problem and she couldn't understand why I had an issue.

I don't think she's self aware, she seems oblivious to how she comes across and can't fathom how I could find her approach anything other than benevolent and helpful .

I've given up trying to do anything about it.. biding my time until I can leave.

To answer your question: No, they don't know how difficult they are being and have a pathological need to be in control. It sucks.

Micromanagers are bad managers because they waste time and resources doing unnecessary tasks (like your list). It’s been proven that staff who feel trusted and empowered to work independently (of course with guidance where needed) work better than those feeling the pressures of having to prove themselves constantly.

Have you ever tried to speak to him and flag some of your concerns? I know it’s hard when it’s your boss and you haven’t got the face to face contact which makes things easier, but it might be worth raising your issues with him in a Zoom call and explaining the impact they have on your workload and time. It doesn’t have to be confrontational or accusatory, it can be ‘I feel like we will all be more productive if we didn’t do X, because then we have more time for Y’.

It might be worth having a look at Ask a Manager, they have a lot of resources for dealing with micromanaging - the search function is helpful but there’s one article here: www.askamanager.org/2012/08/how-to-deal-with-a-micromanaging-boss.html

It looks like it’s gone way beyond micromanaging. The manager sounds a complete loon. I admire your patience!

The next step might be to talk to his manager. It depends what is normal in your field and your business: but this is frustrating staff and massively undermining productivity. I can’t imagine any organisation where this would be considered helpful.

My immediate boss is a micro manager too. I feel it is ridiculous having 20 yr experience and not being allowed to think for myself. Everyone has to do.exactly the same thing at the same time, whether it suits the situation or not

The more I am micromanaged, the less I communicate.

And mine has to change something, however microscopic, in what I've written too. So I don't send them anything unless they specifically ask for it.

They think they have to do this shit to be seen to be doing a good job.

I know I do a good job so I don't need to prove myself.

but I am far more open and communicative with people who treat me like a human being

@thirstyformore I'm an architect for a big firm. It's not the norm in the company but just in my team. I actually have an assistant atm from a different team and I feel so embarrassed that I have to email my manager before clients, it's like I'm not trusted. Which I know is not even the case. I'm friends with at least 6 people that have left in the last year though and I know it's everyone he's like that with.

That giving enough to keep them entertained is actually my current tactic, and it worked well but he is off the charts at the moment.

He has a bestie in the team, who is very similar to him. The rest of us all feel the same.

@CloudsCanLookLikeSheep aww, I'm sorry to hear. I've raised it before but usually I understand that it's just his need to control and meh, I get paid to do as I'm told. But some of my colleagues have been doing their jobs since he was in school and they are much more disgruntled. I agree, he really does seem to see himself as some kind of saint, ever knowing and helpful. It sucks. I love my job aside from this and he is not all bad, he has me involved in some really good jobs. But I would leave if I could.

@Sparklesocks thanks a lot, that makes sense. I spent the whole of last weekend trying to work out how to broach the subject because of some really random request he wanted me to print screen a form to show I had done it correctly. It's something I learned to do correctly years ago and I would honestly trust my 10 year old child to do it properly. But of course I decided it's not worth the stress. When he first brought up this database I said I trusted my own organisational methods but would try it his way. He claims he needs it because he doesn't trust other team members (which is the case). But yes, I will try that, I have nothing to lose and it doesn't sound confrontational. I'll check out that website, thanks a lot.

@darkside29 the one thing that really gets to me the most is his manager is the opposite, he sees everything that goes on and just allows it. I didn't even know he knew my name for the first year I worked there and we work in the same office. I swear this is true, I know the whole thing sounds totally unbelievable.

@ConstanceDoodleton it's horrible isn't it, you have my sympathies. I am all over the place, sometimes I feel humiliated and then sometimes I feel like I must be rubbish at my job and I wonder why he doesn't have people he can trust, often I feel bad for him, he puts so much pressure on himself, like he would do the entire team's work if he could. Yes, same, there's no flexibility, we all have to write reports to the exact same format, it's ludicrous.

@MT2017 - that sounds like a good tactic. I'm sorry you have a similar boss too.

It's so frustrating really. He will change things e.g. add something in that isn't relevant or that I have mentioned elsewhere so I end up rewriting parts. And then sometimes I just ignore all changes and send it back and he accepts it.

@anon12185

Just remember - it's all BS. And it's not you - it's them.

If you send something without checking with him, how would he react? As in, you refuse to engage and carry on as normal without having everything checked, would he go nuts?

I’ve had 2 micro-managers in the last. One left, but not before she really pissed off the entire organisation. The other pisses people off but is still there. I left. I don’t care that she was made my boss, but undermining me at every opportunity and trying to make out she knew more than me about my job was ridiculous. She wasn’t even a specialist in my area!

@MT2017 thank you so much. This is exactly what I say to newer colleagues but one of the newest is on a sandwich year with us and has decided to change career and I can't help wondering if he would have stayed had we had a different boss.

@Cherrysoup - aww I'm sorry for you. I'm glad you left though, it would have just gotten you down.

Well, here adds hilarity, he complains if we send him too many emails. Have to send him drafts, have to avoid sending him emails. If an email is too long he will call up and say "thanks for your dissertation"

But a couple of weeks ago he BCC'd me and a few others into a request that once client had paid a fee for a project I would screen shot fee to him and all documents before processing as a job. I ignored this because it seemed crazy and bluntly worded and rude to BCC this request, and he called me this week saying I'd taken on 6 new jobs, could I do as he asked and forwarded the message. He likes to use the phrase "do as I instructed".

But other things, sure I just ignore. He doesn't even have time for all the things he asks for and would resent us for sending them. And I have two degrees and years of experience, I think I can answer a simple query myself! ah have to laugh huh

I know a manager like this...he wasn't my manager, but if mine was off I could go to him if I needed to...except I never did. He once said, the only member of Andy's team not to have come to me for advice is Sandy.

He wanted to see every letter his team did, he wanted to have more meets before meetings...for no good reason.

When he was standing in for my permanent manager, I never followed what he said. He asked why..and I said I had been doing letters like thus for years and if I needed his advice, I would ask for it.

We disagreed on a few occasions and I th think he saw me as defiant...but I didn't really care. He had no idea he was a micromanager.. a few ppl in his team left because of him as well.

He once insisted I invite him to a meeting I was having with a member of his team. I didn't need him there, but I invited him anyway. He didn't turn up, so I went ahead with the meeting...he got shirty and said I should have come to his desk to remind him. I said I felt the invite was sufficient.

His team all complained, but didn't do anything. A couple of them used to tell me, they don't let him in on everything they do..so he doesn't bother them.

My advice...FWIW and I work in HR, is to raise it in your 1:1.

Tell him you find it rather demoralising that he doesn't trust you to communicate etc with clients considering your level of experience and it has the effect of being demotivating.

Explain how you find unnecessary time is wasted by going through the minutiae and you are capable to carrying out the tasks assigned to you.

You might feel it's better to do in writing.

If he's unapproachable, try talking to your second line manager. Or try and ask your HR for advice. It will affect your mental health over needs to be dealt with.

Feel free to PM me for advice if you want.

Micro managers are usually really insecure ppl deep down.

Perhaps add on to this database asking for your every move, the 1/5 of working time spent doing this database. I.e. Tuesday 11.35 - 20 mins spent filling out database. Tuesday 13.00 - 10 mins spent documenting on database. Tuesday 16.13 - 10 mins spent on database. Make him realise just how much time is being wasted on this.

I had a manager who was very much life you describe. He once evolved the 10 point case progression checklist into a list of over 200 actions, all but 10 of which were superfluous.... new stuff would appear on it every week. And if you didn't complete the checklist to show you'd done all 200 steps there was hell to pay. Sounds a lot like this ridiculous database!

Personally I found it very hard to manage as I'm quite to opposite end of things and micromanaging doesn't sit well with me.

Does he know he's doing it? From experience of my own micromanaging boss, I'd say he thinks his staff can't be trusted to do it right so he has to put all these things in place to check up on the idiots because only he knows how to do it properly.

He won't change and it will affect your MH adversely.

I like the idea of adding a "time spent completing database" category to the database - then sending that to his manager.

I had one... my god. She is delusional and useless but really self satisfied. Demands to be copied on all emails- these are simply internal emails on projects she is nothing to do with. One experienced team member blew up at her and I am the fifth person she has employed and who has moved on after a few months since she arrived two years ago.
I’m at a much more relaxed place now and really glad I left. Some people were like you need to stay and give it a chance/talk to her about it. Why? My life is too short to spend miserable at work. My advice is to get out if at all possible.

I was nearly micro managed into a nervous breakdown, I started to doubt everything about myself. It wasnt arrogance from him though, it was his own insecurity.
I would say ' I see no point to this and I'm not doing it anymore!' and see where that gets you. a
At the very least it should allow other Mangers to see what's going on.

I'd be tempted to get together with colleagues to take him really literally and deluge him with forms and emails. Fill in forms asking for permission to fill in forms. Fill in a form for every email draft. Fill in forms for going to lunch, for clocking off at the end of the day, for going to the loo. At the very least he won't have time for more stupidity, and he might begin to see the ridiculousness of what he is doing.

If they do realise they more than likely don’t care. That has been my experience. I just get on with things & pick my battles. Every so often I hit them with a truth bomb in an effort to annoy/remind them we aren’t all stupid. I phrase it as constructive feedback.

I recently worked for someone like that for 3 months. I hated it and it’s made me incredibly wary about who I work for next.

It sounds awful. And you’re an architect so a professional, qualified, experienced person presumably?

I think you should bring it up in your 1:1 too. Best case is that he’s inexperienced, new to managing people and open to what you have to say. Do you have a 360 feedback option in your organisation, where you’re asked for feedback on your manager? If so, use that.

Is your organisation involved with Investors In People or similar? Your manager would be breaking all kinds of their principles and you could challenge the behaviour on that basis.

An alternative is to call a meeting, that you minute, to ask why you are being so tightly performance managed as if you were an intern in the first three months.

Of course, the main thing is to keep the boss massively busy on other things and hopefully get them transferred to other projects.

How about suggesting they to run a special initiative on leading and empowering creative professionals in times of crisis or something like that.

Or you and your peers take the initiative and do a cool report on how much time and money the company could save, while empowering their professionals, with just the following few proposed changes. Present to boss and boss's boss. Make it so it would seem churlish to not show it upwards. Surely your organisation is pushing you to think of stuff like that in these times.

Then there is the straightforward revolt. You and your peers demand a RACI session, set out principles of behaviour, make it all v sensible and escalate if you are still treated like new interns.

The manager I knew never realised he was a micromanager. I would have members of his team tell me I'm so lucky to have the laid back manager I did.

The micromanager would tell me how good his team are and how he has empowered them to do their jobs and had full confidence in him.

I felt like saying...so you know why Jenny, Lisa, Ally, Asif, Kay and Fiona left.

He was delusional...but I could see through his insecurities. I just wouldn't bow to his silly requests...I just said I'm not used to working this way. Or because I do it automatically, I didn't remember to run it past you.

A pp said something about a nervous breakdown and I know exactly what you mean. In the period my own manager was off, he drove me insane.... I ended up with palpitations.

I actually complained about him to the Head of department, who said he understood how I felt and others had said similar things ... that they were working on exiting him from the organisation.

It only took another 3 and a half years. Had he been my permanent manager, I would have left or put in a formal grievance.

Firstly. It’s excellent that you recognise the problem sits with the manager. It’s very easy for this sort of behaviour to eat away at your self esteem and confidence.

How would you feel about printing out an article on micro management, taking it the your manager and say “this is my experience of being managed by you, please can you explain why you are micro managing me?”

They then either have to modify their behaviour, draw up a contract of how you work together in a way that suits you both or - less likely - actually identify areas for your professional development and formalise the expectations in to an action plan which you could focus on addressing. If you have an HR colleague ensure that they are present.

Would your manager actually notice if you sent out an email that hadn't been pre-approved?

I used to work with someone a bit like this. Ultimately I and others learned that if you ignored his demands he tended to forget about them, usually because he was too busy thinking about the next initiative. Occasionally mass action worked well too. Once he got a bee in his bonnet about staff attendance when there was a series of transport strikes, and insisted that there was no reason for staff to be late - even people who had to take children to school etc so had no way of starting their journey early. He issued an order that everyone would have to contact HR as soon as they got in, with draconian threats of the consequences of failing to sign in or signing in late. As adults in responsible jobs who were already mostly working beyond contracted hours, we found it all pretty offensive, and without any planning the vast majority of us ignored the instruction. HR said nothing (probably because they thought it was stupid too) and we heard no more about it.