To think people should cut the holiday companies some slack?

[sunfloweryy]

I’ve had my holiday cancelled for two weeks time - fair enough. Company are offering credit plus a discount on future holidays or you can apply for a refund but it could take several months.

I get this. They are obviously experiencing massively high call volumes, don’t have enough staff and are hemoraging money.

But loads of people are on SM demanding refunds, swearing, being rude etc. AIBU to think there are bigger problems and we should lay off for a while and let things die down?

I know it’s shit, I want my money back too but the cost is already sunk!

Our refunds are all hand processed. There may be off the shelf technology but we have neither the means to buy it or the means to implement it at this time. We would not normally need any automated process and couldn’t have foreseen the need for it now. I’m not saying I don’t understand the frustration but getting angry is not going to help. We very much care about our customers and are trying our best (small operator).

First choice should’ve refunded me nearly £2k over a month ago and haven’t, so no, I won’t be cutting them some slack. They’re holding onto my money when they have no right to. It’s not even just my money and the person I am meant to go away with needs their money too due to no income. We cancelled before they even advised travel wouldn’t be going ahead and there has been a major lack of communication so I think I have every right to be pissed off

I agree with you OP but the experience I’ve had suggests that tour operators also need to be much more transparent with their customers. I was supposed to be going on a package holiday with TUI on 24th March. We got an email from them on 25th March to say our holiday was cancelled (yes, after our departure date) and then... nothing. I tried calling them twice last week, got through to someone after an hour on hold, only for them to put me on hold while they looked something up, then got cut off. Twice. We then got an email saying we’d get a credit note plus 20% by 1st May. That’s fine (as long as they don’t hike the prices up astronomically) but to only get any communication at all a month after our departure date is piss poor.

Also work in travel and have money tied up in 3 holidays not with my company so see both sides. While I agree that refunds should be processed its completely unrealistic to expect it to happen within 14 days, the volume is massive and staffing is at bare minimum. In addition if refunds are instantly processed lots of companies will go into administration before even a fraction of customers have received any money. If that happens you'll be waiting even longer for your money through a CAA claim. The Thomas Cook backlog hasn't been cleared yet let alone any failure from this situation.
As for Tui, yes they have furloughed staff and while there is definitely work for them to do its wholly unreasonable to expect them to go into their workplaces when they are far from being key workers. As a business they aren't set up for staff to work from home and while they've managed to get some set up it's just not possible to provide laptops and mobiles to thousands of staff. As customers people seem to want Tui staff in work being paid to issue refunds with zero income, while not increasing next years prices to cover the costs of all of this . I don't work for Tui btw but can see how it's become unmanageable for them.
Patience with the companies is the only possible approach as they're working on no income, low staff and an uncertain future. The package travel Regulations absolutely weren't designed for this eventuality, it's unprecedented. People will get refunds in time, but 14 days is impossible logistically and financially.

Our holiday in May is cancelled. Heard nothing from holiday company about a refund yet. A credit note would be no use to us as my holidays are pre-booked at work. Next year my holidays (we can work out when they’ll be as they are rostered on a rolling basis) aren’t at convenient times to rebook, my main two weeks are in the school holidays which is no good to us; we don’t have DC and going by what others are saying we’d have to pay more on top. I can, of course try to swap with colleagues but it’s difficult as in my department most of us either have no/adult/pre-school DC and so no one really wants to be off when the schools are!

We’d booked the holiday this year with the expectation that we probably wouldn’t go away next year so booked two holidays this year (still waiting to hear about our September break). We’ll be applying for a refund through Section 75 if either company tries to refuse a refund.

Yanbu op, they really don’t deserve the abuse ,especially not the call agents who are just trying to do their jobs at a really stressful time like anyone else

Loads of people are having a hard time. What about people who've just lost their jobs, why shouldn't they ask for a refund? Do you not think they could do with that money now?

All the people who've had to close down their small businesses, all the self-employed that alare panicking as to whether they'll be able to re-open/retrade or not - what is so special about travel companies that they are to be considered above others who are struggling?

Customers aren't shareholders in travel companies so their money shouldn't be held by the companies.

I suppose if one is privileged enough not to miss the money, or can accept a voucher to go another time for extortionate prices as travel companies are sharks when it comes to price hikes, then it's all good.

Not everybody is fortunate enough financially to just let it go.

It's the insurance companies I feel angry about tbh. I have annual insurance and added on trip disruption. Our summer flights have been cancelled and managed to get money refunded from BA but naively assumed that travel insurance would cover non refundable accommodation deposit. But apparently because they have offered that we could put it towards a future trip - yes like we're likely to be booking another trip to Costa Rica anytime soon - it's unlikely we'll get anything. Even if they do pay out the excess is per person so will be very little.

Also I lost everything on a ski trip as 2 days before French lockdown but seemed rather silly to proceed.So at least those who have had their trips cancelled through FCO guidelines will get their money back or a new holiday.

@Hangingwithmygnomies nobody should be swearing at you. That’s atrocious behaviour and rarely gets a result. I’m at loggerheads with my travel agent, but both parties have been completely professional, polite and courteous. I’m so sorry if people are being rude and personal. In banking I get the same thing and it is upsetting when you’re doing your best.

No sympathy for holiday companies and all their small print, and ducking and diving.

They take the money months in advance, so should refund without making customers jump through hoops, and telephone so called helplines that never answer and never help!

As a business they aren't set up for staff to work from home and while they've managed to get some set up it's just not possible to provide laptops and mobiles to thousands of staff. As customers people seem to want Tui staff in work being paid to issue refunds with zero income

In response to this, (from the business perspective, no criticism of the poster), my high street bank have done exactly this. We’ve issued thousands of staff with laptops, we asked thousands of staff to order proper PC screens, keyboards and desks/chairs from Amazon if that meant our entire workforce were able to take the five fold increase in work. From requests for mortgage holidays, personal overdrafts, business loans, relaxing of loan covenants. None of this is income generating work, we are working under very strict government guidance on this, nobody has been furloughed, because morally, we need all hands on deck, it’s the right thing to do. I’m amazed travel agents are furloughing.

Well as a travel agent (albeit small) we have had to furlough most staff in order that our business can make it through the next few months with absolutely zero cash coming in at all. It is as simple as that. Morals have nothing to do with it. With all due respect banking is not the same at the moment in the slightest. We are still paying a small team to process refunds but it simply will not be as quick. Alternative is that we go under and you take your chances elsewhere getting a refund with a long line of others. OR you are patient and you will get them back in due course.

edwina, banks are still making money but travel companies are running huge losses. I'm sure its possible but its unsurprising that they've been caught on the back foot. As I said, they have started settling people up at home but it isn't happening quickly. The reason Jet2 are coping much better is that they already run on lots of home workers so had the systems in place. Hays have in the last week or so re employed around 2500 staff to two from home so travel companies are get there it's just slow. Like I said, I don't work for tui so no battle to fight on their behalf but it really isn't simple. I work for a tour operator that sells through tui shops and our customers are struggling as they cant get hold of the agent they booked with to make amendments etc so its massively frustrating. I'm just surprised that people cant see that everyone is fire fighting and struggling, and of course making bad decisions along the way. Our own government are struggling to cope and failed to plan but we expect holiday providers to have instant solutions. At the moment I'm paying for cubs, swimming, childcare, and all sorts of things as they didn't respond quickly to sort out payments etc but I under that businesses have been blind sided by it so I'm giving them time to get organised.

thewinkingprawn I hope you get through this the other side

@Hangingwithmygnomies - thank you. That’s really helpful.

@BoingBoingyBoing It’s not possible to automate refunds in full as each refund request the tour operator receives has to be looked into in several systems from various airlines, suppliers, ATOL etc. And those systems aren’t linked. First stage checking GDS systems to see ticket regulations. Comparing the booking to airlines individual crisis policies which are all unique and vary wildly, tickets issued have to have endorsements manually entered into them, then let’s not forget applying to each individual airline for the refund which then has to be received before it can be passed on. Plus tax refunds under different regulations. Our refund team had about 10 staff normally. A single refund can take 10 minutes to a couple of hours depending on the complexity of all the elements. Due to TC, Flybe and now Covid, their workload has gone up beyond all measure. Before lockdown our company was attempting to get an extra 50-100 staff from other areas trained to help the backlog. Then lockdown hit - no trained staff on the very complicated refund processes and most of the company furloughed because no money to pay wages. Its utterly impossible and will take much time to sort. If only it could be automated.

@EnglishGirlApproximately thank you 🙏

We recently had to pay the balance of a holiday which I suspect won't happen (Italy departure date end of June). We had to pay the balance in order to fulfil our side of the contract.

Trying to pay that balance was a nightmare and TUI were telling us different things. Spent almost three hours on hold over two calls before getting somewhere. We were proactive in getting in touch. Have heard nothing otherwise.

We booked in 2018! TUI have had £2,000 of ours since April 2019. They now have another £1,500

TUI were excellent with us last year as we had to postpone a holiday due to bereavement. We do remember that.

If we can rebook without extra expense for 2021 then we will.

I don't want a credit note or voucher.

If we can't rebook then we are legally entitled to a refund and will pursue that, especially as we have gone to extra effort to fulfil our side of the contract.

We have had insurance since 2018 (bundled in with our bank account and valid from the moment we book) and paid by credit card so have 2 back-up plans for securing money we can't really afford not to get refunded (or rebook).

We are never, ever, ever going to book in advance again. We'll save up and go for last minute deals in future.

I would also say this... the moral stance of the ‘company’ has nothing to do with the poor person who answers the phone. They can only do what they are permitted to do.

I do know however that in travel there are sometimes those staff that will go out of their way to do way more than they need to for customers who aren’t mean to them. They will speak to contacts at airlines or ground agents, they will spend extra time looking at your booking to see what they can refund, they will try every alternative they can find to move your dates without extra cost. I’ve heard it so many times. These people exist in the travel industry. Obviously not everyone but they are many. They genuinely enjoy getting a ‘win’ for our customers.

If you manage to speak to a staff member I GUARANTEE you that being nasty will not help you. They are not scared of bad press threats right now - they are fighting to survive - so kindness to who you’re speaking to might just help.

We need our money back. We've lost an income and are legally entitled to a refund within 2 weeks. TUI'S customer service is appalling. They've repeatedly asked people not to call as they are proactively contacting customers to discuss options. But now they've decided to send credit notes to everyone without getting in touch and have said you can only request a refund after you've received your credit note. But not to worry as anyone who has been in touch previously will get a refund if it was requested. So basically I sat back, giving them a break and the benefit of the doubt and waited to be contacted like requested but now, because I have not called up and chased them, I'm not looking at weeks for a refund but months?? That's a piss take.

On top of that the cheapest holiday in the same bracket as the one I had booked is 50% pricier for next year which is crazy and unaffordable to me.

@sunfloweryy I am in the same boat

No, you are not in the same boat at all. You are dealing with a company that has engaged with you, responded to you and let you know your refund/rescheduling options, as laid out in your original post. If I’d had your experience I wouldn’t even be annoyed, never mind boiling.

Quite the opposite of your experience, I’ve had zero response to about a dozen emails, been left on hold for thirty minutes plus numerous times before each call was unceremoniously dropped. Stop pretending please that this is a one-size-fits-all experience. We are not all dealing with companies who’ve treated us with courtesy, professionalism and some semblance of respect.

"It’s not possible to automate refunds in full as each refund request the tour operator receives has to be looked into in several systems from various airlines, suppliers, ATOL etc. "

All that is utterly irrelevant to a customer of a company like TUI returning the money that someone has spent on a holiday.

The bottom line is, ti someone pays TUI 5k for a holiday and they cannot fulfil that holiday, they need to return 5k back within the legal timeframes set out and there is no reason why THAT part of the transaction should take any more time or effort than an automated bank transfer - unless, of course, TUI simply don't have enough money to refund everyone which is obviously the case.

People buy their holidays as package deals so they don't have to care about how much of that money goes to the airline or to the hotel or to the government, that is long and short of it.

I have sympathy for the staff of these companies and I appreciate that times are hard. However, TUI as a company are being a bunch of pricks. They are acting in a completely immoral fashion by both withholding refunds and continuing to accept books on holidays that any idiot knows will not go ahead and so I have significantly more sympathy for the people who have given TUI large sums of money and who now need that money back.

@thewinkingprawn

Alternative is that we go under and you take your chances elsewhere

Sorry to say it, but if you go under, I get my money back via ATOL. That’s all I want protected.

@edwinbear ATOL doesn’t apply to us (not that sector of travel) so you wouldn’t actually but I get your point that you would through whoever you had booked with. Would take you way longer than having a bit of patience though so my point still stands.

I’m actually completely fine to wait for my refund. I understand the issues, I really do. My beef is with ABTA pretending all our money is safe. When it isn’t.