Is the British government now actively trying to suppress the figures?

[Cam77]

internewscast.com/nhs-doctors-told-they-dont-need-to-list-covid-19-on-death-certificates-of-coronavirus-patients/
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8227035/NHS-doctors-told-DONT-need-list-Covid-19-death-certificates-coronavirus-patients.html

The guidance, which is titled ‘guidance for death certification of proven Covid-19 patients during the current pandemic’, says proven coronavirus deaths must be reported to the hospital site manager.

But under the header ‘general principles’ it adds: ‘There is no requirement to write Covid-19 as part of the medical certificate of cause of death (MCCD).’

The Good Law Project say the guidance suggests doctors are being ‘gently discouraged’ from reporting deaths as COVID-19. That would mean “we have no way of knowing if the government figures on deaths from coronavirus – the daily in hospital figures as well as the weekly ONS figures – are accurate,” the group said in an email to supporters.

The leaked guidance from an NHS Hospital Trust says: “Doctors are asked to use the standard MCCD (Medical Certificate of Cause of Death) form to certify death. ‘Pneumonia ‘or ‘community acquired pneumonia’ are acceptable at 1(a) on the MCCD.

Sure sounds like it

Someone living in Iceland pointed out all the other countries that will contain this better than us won't want to trade with or visit us.

Loads are people are already vowing never to buy from the Chinese again. I predict this won't last when the next iPhone model comes out.

Depends on interpretation. When he says no worse than seasonal flu, does he mean if we didn't have flu vaccination? Possibly we'd have the same high daily number of deaths with flu if that were the case but fortunately we do have an annual flu vaccination for those at risk. We don't normally have large numbers of people in their 39s, 40s, 50s, or even older in intensive care at the same time. Nor do we have doctors, nurses, transport workers, police, and care home workers dying just doing their jobs.

Thats a fair point about the vaccine.

I'm inclined to err on the side of caution tbh, but I can't help but wonder whether social distancing and closing of pubs/gyms etc might have been sufficient. I'm still seeing hundreds of people a week and none of my 80 colleagues have become seriously ill, neither have any at our other depots.

I don't know the solution, but considering over 90% of deaths were people with multiple existing conditions I speculate that many might not have lived much longer anyway, which is something I've heard a lot of doctors say. Of course, we can't just let people die, but it's also worrying that the effects of lockdown will be felt for years to come, long long after the majority of corona victims would likely have died of other causes.

Why are we predicted to have the worst death rate in Europe nobody can say that for sure its impossible . If going by report other day apparently they have revised that

Plus I'm also reading where people say covid being put down when not necessarily the case as described above . The papers have been awful throughout this printing one story one day and another contradicting it the next so people don't know what to believe

.The papers have been awful throughout this printing one story one day and another contradicting it the next so people don't know what to believe

Agree you have one article saying lockdown must continue, another saying end it now, one shaming people for buying non essentials but a commentary piece encouraging people to shop. Then you have some lauding contact tracing but another warning about losing civil liberties. And that's just today!

Well well well, China doesn't look so bad now does it? Good old 'civilised' blighty covering up deaths and to think, some people had the nerve to take me to task for saying that people's hatred of China is clouding their judgement.

Certain people owe me an apology.

some people had the nerve to take me to task for saying that people's hatred of China is clouding their judgement.

In what way??

@tontie I pointed out that they were racist and then in return I was thoroughly abused for my point of view. Fortunately I did not receive any threats to my life in private correspondence this time so that's something.

Yes. Officially we had 2551 deaths in the week 28 march til 3rd April.

Yet overall deaths were 6000 higher than the five year average for that week. Jumping from 10000 to 16000.

Oh, and every week this year they've been around 11000 a week.

@KathyBriggs360 what were they racist for saying? Your post implies it's something to do with death numbers?

To put it simply, I wouldn’t trust the serial liar at the head of the British government anymore than I’d trust reports coming out from China.

True that. Well said,

I'm an HCP. It's well understood in public heath that confirmed cases are a minimum number and in the absence of widespread test are a measure we can keep consistent. Mortality from the virus will be much better understood retrospectively and can be closely estimated now by comparing current death rates in a particular location with the historical all cause mortality rate for the same location.

Antibody tests are starting to indicate that the virus was much more widespread in the US than first thought. This is good news. It means that more people have presumptive immunity and the fatality rate is lower than was first assumed.

The public gets a bit too focused on the exact numbers. It's the trends that matter. At the point of care now the testing is largely irrelevant. If someone presents with CV symptoms that's how they are treated.

Or the opposite
Patrick Vallance said at press conference that people were having Covid 19 listed on their death certificate, in spite of not being tested

twitter.com/Commons41570174/status/1251444936823713792

Re seasonal flu

There’s some figures here from a bad flu season

The vaccine isn’t a guarantee you won’t get it

www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/last-years-flu-broke-records-for-deaths-and-illnesses-new-cdc-numbers-show/2018/09/26/97cb43fc-c0ed-11e8-90c9-23f963eea204_story.html

I pointed out that they were racist and then in return I was thoroughly abused for my point of view. Fortunately I did not receive any threats to my life in private correspondence this time so that's something.

Dramatic much?

What actually happened is that you accused people of being racist and then got the hump when it was pointed out by several posters that Islam is a religion not a race.

Don't they list all conditions? The death certificate i got the other day had one condition as a he cause of death and then the other conditions the person had when they died.

I see Cendrillon hasn't been back to explain.

Having a long lie?

I thought the non-covid excess in week ending 3 April was more like 1800. When do we get update for deaths in week ending 10 April?

"But what we are seeing is a synchronisation of cases, so health services are being put under great pressure" yes that was the point wasn't it.

@CurrentBun1981

And everyone currently working in the NHS, every epidemiologist and virologist who actually has current data and knowledge of what's going on and the WHO has said the opposite so we can safely assume that the weight of expertise is not in agreement with what you're saying.

If I have a mild case of the virus and I get hit by a truck should cause of death be recorded as dying of the virus?

It sounds like that is saying there is no need to assume that I would have died from it anyway, but I'm no expert on the way these things are usually handled.

but the OP IS an expert as equipped with the comfy chair and the internet connection which are all you need these days.

@lljkk 21st I believe. You can see the figures at

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/weeklyprovisionalfiguresondeathsregisteredinenglandandwales

The leap on the five year average is actually quite shocking, especially when you compare it to previous weeks

Does ONS report all UK death counts or just England?
(These constant subdivisions of bits of UK drives me batty)