to think we really are 2 completely different cultures - the USA and the UK - just looking at the 'rebellion' taking place

[chomalungma]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8228769/Bleak-figures-China-US-economic-hit-virus.html

I know it's only some Americans. I know that it's a massive country with many many more people than the UK

But these scenes are astounding. People flocking to beaches. Protesting about lockdown.
Protesting with guns about lockdown

You just can't imagine these scenes in the UK at the moment.
Especially not the Ohio Zombie picture

It just amazes me - sometimes you think we are very similar to the USA, and then many times, you realise we are completely different.

Puritanism is reverberates throughout American culture and values now, the direct instruction from God and the intolerance of anybody who does not comply and is not obedient. The Puritans fled England and Europe precisely because their values were not tolerated here. How can anyone argue that we are culturally similar, we like to subvert authority and celebrate people who don't conform who are a bit naughty. Boris Johnson is like Mr Toad in Wind in the Willows. Equally, the people who don't want live by the Lockdown rules that I know are more like Mr Toad or they are people who certainly don't have God in their hearts they are more akin to Bill Sikes (Oliver Twist) a violent criminal type where the law doesn't apply to them but they are certainly not God fearing!

I don't think it's true that Brits did not take this seriously before Boris Johnson was ill, certainly not where I live. There is certainly a scrutiny of the police if they are over-zealous with the rules.

I learnt about the Irish Famine when I studied A level history, we certainly did learn how the English had oppressed the Irish and this was the 1990's!

@Ulver

The enormous churches that Trump relies on to “deliver the vote” ( and yes they actually pay pastors to tell their congregations who to vote for) are extremely influential and all over the country in organised networks. It’s a large demographic.

Yes- I live in the Bible belt and have a DH who has worked in Federal and State politics and lobbying on the left. I can see a 3,000 strong congregation evangelist Church from my bedroom window and many of my friends and neighbours attend that Church or similar.

I don't deny that the Churches are political entities- but their Conservatism isn't synonymous with these protests, lockdown violations or Trump's particular vein of idiocy. Trump is a vehicle to them.

The vast majority of Christians and Churches in the US are not advocating for this and are preaching obedience. Their congregations may vote on the American right, but you can't extrapolate from an extreme minority protesting lockdown and waving Nazi-Trump flags to the majority of Americans.

American is a very big country. Not everyone is like those pictured.

@Marpan Yes, I am in Florida. I grew up in coastal Georgia and still have close ties there but I have lived in Florida for several decades.

"Be wise America is so huge I don’t think they’re able to say the country as a whole is peaking. I’ve heard it said that New York is or has peaked."

A country doesn't have to be big to have different peaks. We have the same thing here - London is a few weeks ahead of many other parts.

May I ask US dwellers a question? (and I'm certain there'll be as many different answers as posters that respond!)
Do you think this pandemic (and the fact that this virus is likely to be just the start of this type of event happening worldwide) will lead to a change in attitudes in the US to welfare? By which I mean, ok, it will still have strong stigma attached to being in receipt of welfare, but will people begin to support the idea of basic universal healthcare and increased paid leave from work to care for children, as well as food/fuel stamps?

I realise that those protesting are a very small minority that many other Americans would see as extremist in views. But would shelter in place orders be better accepted if there wasn't the fear of starvation from not being able to work hanging over people's heads all the time?

I don't know what kind of sick pay people get, I'm guessing it's absolutely minimal, and depends on your employer, perhaps?
I imagine many people that are ill would still go to work, and spread the illness to colleagues because if lack of sick pay? Similar as has happened in Britain for those working in the gig economy [sic- I loathe that term] or "off the books".

American is a very big country. Not everyone is like those pictured

Of course not.
The USA is massive and is made up of many different people with many different backgrounds and beliefs.

It's just startling to see pictures like that - and you realise even more how far apart some Americans are from the people in the UK even though we speak the same language and are often exposed to the same cultural ideas through the media.

America is not a country. In 1538 Mercator named the whole of both new continents after Amerigo Vespucci, and 'Antipodes,' the new world, came to refer only to Australasia.

And there are signs that US exceptionalism is waning. Church attendance among the young is nearly at European levels and falling. The young are overwhelmingly pro-choice, anti-death penalty and want a comprehensive system of public healthcare, most popularly on a German or Canadian model.

Not read all replies or the article but have seen the news briefly regarding these protests etc...

I wonder if it’s partly to do with the fact that their healthcare system is based on insurance payments. My understanding is that if you have no insurance your pretty much left to die.

I do find this notion astonishing and the fact they don’t aspire to a free for all healthcare system. But then I suppose it smacks of the ‘haves’ and the ‘have nots’. It seems they think if they have a system like ours, it will make it somewhat lesser superior? And they won’t be getting the ‘best medical’ treatment. So the wealthy who can afford the best healthcare don’t give a shit about those that can’t afford the insurance and don’t want a free system.

Say a 24 year old has no job and no insurance and has a treatable cancer or a car accident that requires surgery. Anything that medical intervention would work well and they’d go on to lead a normal life for years afterwards. My understanding is that they wouldn’t treat him. He’d be left to die.

So I wonder if that’s the reason they want to be out and are protesting? In the UK it’s preserve life regardless. It doesn’t matter if your poor or rich you’ll get the same treatment in the NHS.

It doesn’t seem to be the ethos there there. It’s down to whether your rich or poor. So millions of young people will needlessly die each year over there and that doesn’t seem to be an issue?

I’m wondering if the protests are simply a by product of being de-sensitised to a very wealthy country that lets millions of people die anyway?

Despite varying degrees of cooperation in both places, the UK isn't seeing protests by angry gun-waving people who want to be able to get their roots done

Perhaps there are some people in that category protesting, but as much as I disagree with the protests, I recognize that I am one of the lucky ones able to work at home, DH is retired and his pension is secure and our income is not threatened by the current situation. But many people are out of work, living paycheck to paycheck or who have small family businesses that may not recover from the shutdown. As a previous poster has pointed out, we don't have the safety nets that the UK and other European countries have. I can understand their anxiety and their anger. They are not worried about getting their roots done. They are worried about feeding their families.

sometimes you think we are very similar to the USA, and then many times, you realise we are completely different.

Thank fuck.

In NYC both the governor and the mayor just a few short weeks ago were telling people to go out and act normal and not let this virus scare them.

Take away the 17K New Yorkers that have died and the entire US, population 328 million is only about 18K.

If you spent any time in the US and really travel, not just to the tourists hot spots, you would understand that this very young, very large country with a wild terrain could never have become what it is so quickly without the guns and the cowboy mentality and yes, religion and faith of all types.

Comparing countries is just odd. All of these threads about the USA seem almost giddy and gleeful thinking somehow we will suffer more in the US and that will finally prove something. It’s a barley disguised jealousy that has zero to do with anything but the participants own inner hopes and skimming of headlines meant to provoke.

You have a lovely country, so do we. They are different. It’s not a competition.

PS: no one in the US is looking at the UK and judging like this. Ever.

I realised how different the US was when I went to a music festival there and you could barely get booze! Only very weak lager, served and drunk only in an enclosed garden that closed at 7pm (you couldn’t watch a band with a drink for example) and to enter the beer garden you had to have a wristband to prove you were over 21, which required photo id to obtain. Booze was this carefully guarded sin yet everyone appeared to be taking drugs openly and with abandon. Very odd atmosphere!

Even the govt video for run, hide, tell has a gunman making their way through a building.

But not a school. There have been terrorist attacks on Britain in recent years and the video focuses on how to act in a terrorist situation in a shopping centre.

*deaths in the US less N.Y. = 20K

sometimes you think we are very similar to the USA
I don't.

My understanding is that if you have no insurance your pretty much left to die.

Your understanding of the situation is wrong. People aren't left to die. At all. It is illegal to deny life saving treatment to someone because of a lack of insurance. Uninsured people receive treatment like everyone else. Then they are billed for it. Many will qualify for medicaid and have a good portion of their treatment covered. Yes, the bills can force someone into bankruptcy if they don't qualify for medicaid, which is terrible. But they aren't left to die. How do people believe this shit?

@Mistymonday

Alcohol sales are governed by the State laws. It’s different in every State.

Comparing countries is just odd

I think it's because we have the language in common and many cultural references.

Then you realise that even though we have things in common, we have many many differences.

Having lived in Texas for 6 months, the best way I can explain it is the small state vs big state argument. In the USA, the vast majority of the population believe that the role of that state is to provide individuals freedom to go about their business, and that the role of the state should be as small as possible and interfere with an individual’s freedom as little as possible. In Europe, most people believe the state should support the vulnerable in society, even if that means some curtailment of individual freedoms.

That’s why it’s not an uncommon or unpopular view in the USA to say “I don’t believe in welfare for anyone under any circumstances, I don’t believe in publicly funded healthcare” because they believe it is the individual that is paramount, and therefore it is up to the individual, not the state, to provide for themselves. And the same translates to these protests - state powers are curtailing individual freedoms which goes against their most deeply held values.

@Ulver

I live in Houston and nothing of the sort has happened here.
There were a few protesters at the Texas State Capitol building in Austin yesterday but that was about it. It was peaceful and nothing like the sort seen in other states.

Yes, many of the people in US hospitals being treated right now for Covid-19 are uninsured.

I like to compare US states with English counties:

New Jersey is definitely twinned with Essex.
Texas and Yorkshire have some very similar attitudes, good and bad.
And on some days, Poole Bay and Bournemouth looks just like Santa Monica.

We are different countries of course, but let's not assume we couldn't have problems here if things go wrong in some way.