to think we really are 2 completely different cultures - the USA and the UK - just looking at the 'rebellion' taking place

[chomalungma]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8228769/Bleak-figures-China-US-economic-hit-virus.html

I know it's only some Americans. I know that it's a massive country with many many more people than the UK

But these scenes are astounding. People flocking to beaches. Protesting about lockdown.
Protesting with guns about lockdown

You just can't imagine these scenes in the UK at the moment.
Especially not the Ohio Zombie picture

It just amazes me - sometimes you think we are very similar to the USA, and then many times, you realise we are completely different.

I think as a nation we are more similar to those Scandinavian countries where the vast majority will abide by laws and rules without the need for enforcement.

Ha! Really, don't kid yourself.

The UK is moving farther and farther to the right. Look at the threads on here over the years, absolutely scathing towards the poor and working poor, the disabled, the sick. This 'safety net' has been systematically dismantled with the full support of the voting public.

Not even touching on Brexit.

People were making allsorts of ridiculous claims about the UK being on the brink of civil war over Brexit etc. but its pulled together very well, despite the shit show by the government. The US on the other hand really is fatally divided, and it goes back to the Civil War. They never dealt with the confederacy properly and there's still a taboo there for calling out those southern beliefs as the evil they were.

and yes - religion, all the way. In this case, christianity

This type of christianity (and I'm deliberately using a small "c") isn't religion - it's superstition.

They confuse God with Santa Claus - if they are very, very good then they will get "presents".

True religion - of any faith - isn't like that.

During and after the American Revolution, Canada was settled by a good third of the former loyal colonists who were driven out by the terror tactics of the French-backed revolutionaries. They brought with them a loyalty to the crown and a sense of respect for the law.

When Canada expanded west, settlement was never permitted to run ahead of the law. There was no sense of any gun-toting individualism. Sitting Bull found refuge in the Land of the Grandmother, and was given a stiff lecture by the local constable that if any of his braves assaulted the local cattle, they would be made to pay a fine.

And Western Canadians own guns, but just the one, a hunting rifle, single shot, or a shotgun to scare the birds.

@user1471565182 .....Many Americans do not thing Health Care is a fundamnetal right. I'm an American born and raised by Welsh parents and GrandParents. The biggest difference to IME is the culture of public benwfits. In the US its called Welfare. Getting Welfare is a thing to be ashamed of. Its not something to celebrate or to live off forever. The "pull yourself up by the bootstraps mentality" is alive and well in America.

And the worry I have is about the proportion of people streaming into malls etc then travelling between states and overseas. This doesn’t just affect the non-stupid people in their own country, it impacts on other countries too. How can other countries ever hope to mitigate the effects of the virus with this sort of shit happening.

The US on the other hand really is fatally divided, and it goes back to the Civil War. They never dealt with the confederacy properly and there's still a taboo there for calling out those southern beliefs as the evil they were.

I think that there is a deep-rooted racial divide in the US, too - I know that there are racist elements in every country on earth, but in the US prejudice seems to run particularly deep.

I think here int eh UK some people think like that about Welfare also but would regard Health care differently surely. To think poor people might not be able to see a doctor is surely not very Christian?

The delusional megachurches for "conservative Christians" behind all this have a vested interest in getting their worshippers back in church - look up tithing, we haven't really had it over here since the middle ages with the exception of some fringe institutions like the LDS which have spread from the US to the UK. But in America the church members all fork over about 10-15% of their salary to their church.
I made the tragic mistake of going to a service at one of the "presbyterian" churches thinking it would be close to C of E and it was basically a pastor ranting about abortion for an hour followed by people inviting each other to a barbecue.
I'd like to see the Church of England try tithing and see how far they got.

I have a lovely friend in the States, who is part of this “movement”. In their mind it is tied to the second amendment and to Christianity. The fact that the state does not have the right to make decisions about an individuals’ health. Completely anti abortion and anti vaccine. Anti Bill Gates - convinced that he’s developing a vaccine that is going to include a secret microchip to monitor and track individuals. And 5G is a conspiracy.

I find it hard to reconcile these beliefs as they the most amazingly lovely and generous soul , bright and articulate. But I do not understand their beliefs. Still love them though.

The US is huge. It's not on the brink of Civil War. There's far more to it the the East (which was where the Civil War occurred).

They never dealt with the confederacy properly and there's still a taboo there for calling out those southern beliefs as the evil they were.

You mean like the way they teach history here, leaving out vast amounts of shocking maltreatment and outrage genocide on the part of our own government? The Irish Famine? Streets named after slave traders?

I'm Scottish but honestly, this thread is rich! People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

You just can't imagine these scenes in the UK at the moment.

^

No? I can. They're just more passive aggressive about it.

Stop being so holier than thou over the Yanks, the Brits just don't shout so loud about their apparent exceptionalism. Many people in the UK are flouting the lockdown rules.

Yup, I'm with peppermint.

This is a minuscule number of extremists in a country of 350 million people. It's still frightening to see, especially as it's egged on by POTUS.

I live in a very pro-Trump state but these protests aren't happening here. Even the Conservative Christians that live near me are voicing how important it is to stay home and abide by the lockdown.

But you have to remember that the particular vein of capitalism means many people are nothing without their jobs. No health insurance, no sick pay, and incredibly short term unemployment support.

Much of Trump's core electorate is the white, blue-collar workforce many of whom are in industries that have been in decline for years. Or, if they are on pensions, they are reliant on their industry continuing to exist. For decades, it's seemed like the world and economy has been sweeping them out of the picture, so I can easily see how this adds to that rhetoric and fear.

I'd love to know how many people on this thread have direct experience of the various subcultures that are being brought up though, rather than the punditing and sassy memes on Facebook that go on.

@peppermintcapsules yeah our history has serious issues too, I would agree with that. The revisioning of how William and Mary were mysteriously added to the succession, and the entire atrocity of the Irish occupation, come to mind.

I was watching the protest in Michigan and to some extent I agree with the protestors. I don’t agree with how they went about the protest.

think the issue in some states is the lockdown has been harsh with no work at all apart from those in essential positions.

I think if they had done it less stringently WFH if you can otherwise operate with social in mind at work it would not have resulted in this.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8232453/Britons-flock-shops-non-essential-shopping.html

^

Voilà. Quietly protesting. Like the British have done forever.

Which is why NHS workers are still slogging their proletariat guts out then dying whilst Wills and Kate spout nonsense about helping from the drawing room.

Protest here is buying a lawnmower & BBQ click and collect or taking the dog to the lake district.

So are these the type of people who will be self-treating with salt-water gargles and garlic? Who shun any vaccine? Who are suspicious of Drs? Or will these people be turning up at the hospitals when they fall in?

Please let’s have some hard data come out of this. Comparisons of death rates in the States that have ‘liberated’ their people vs the States who have maintained lockdown (with all the necessary adjustments made for age, ethnicity, income, population density etc.)

That’s not going to be of any use now but we need to see this data once this is all over. Surely the data will speak for itself? More deaths in the States that liberated. More death of medical frontline workers vs Less deaths in the lockdown states? What will they say then?

Imagine trying to maintain social distancing amongst those ‘freedom’ zealots.

ohhh are we doing a mandatory irrelevant 'what about the irish famine' bit on every history thread now?

Are we doing the mandatory irrelevant 'forget about us we're just great let's instead make sweeping generalisations about a country we know nothing about to make us feel better about how great we are' now?

I do think the vast majority of us are trying to stick to government guidelines and we do understand why lockdown has happening, we might not be enjoying it but we know it’s for the greater good.

This is true for the vast majority of Americans, too. And polling shows that a large majority think it's too soon to lift restrictions. Once again so many posters are taking something that a small minority of Americans are doing and extrapolating it into negative generalizations about a huge country of 320,000,000 people that has many different sub-populations and cultures.

Exactly, managed. Maybe we in the UK could achieve more if instead stuck to our own problems and dealt with them first rather than instead bigging ourselves up by looking outside our own borders at how they're doing things wrong, pointing fingers rather than about ourselves first. But we're very very good at the latter rather the former. It's easier, too.

SpaceCadet4000

This is a minuscule number of extremists in a country of 350 million people. It's still frightening to see, especially as it's egged on by POTUS.

The enormous churches that Trump relies on to “deliver the vote” ( and yes they actually pay pastors to tell their congregations who to vote for) are extremely influential and all over the country in organised networks.
It’s a large demographic.

Re the US Bible Belt/Christian fundamentalists saying it’s a punishment from God, I’m reminded of post-tsunami Aceh (Indonesia) where a dd was working very soon afterwards. At least one imam was telling the people that it was all down to the wrath of Allah, because they’d allowed such ungodly things as cinemas and swimming pools.