to think we really are 2 completely different cultures - the USA and the UK - just looking at the 'rebellion' taking place

[chomalungma]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8228769/Bleak-figures-China-US-economic-hit-virus.html

I know it's only some Americans. I know that it's a massive country with many many more people than the UK

But these scenes are astounding. People flocking to beaches. Protesting about lockdown.
Protesting with guns about lockdown

You just can't imagine these scenes in the UK at the moment.
Especially not the Ohio Zombie picture

It just amazes me - sometimes you think we are very similar to the USA, and then many times, you realise we are completely different.

@Mysterian Until the UK abolishes its prison programs its not just the US. Its every country with a prison sentence and considering they get paid to work I have a hard time to call it slavery. They are imprisoned. They can leave when their sentence is up as long as theybdon't acrue more charges plus they get paid to work if they are eligible for the work release program. Slaves couldn't leave and they didn't get paid

@chomalungma

No hatred here

I guess you missed all of the incredibly vile comments on this thread about the US that MNHQ had to delete.

So it's "slavery" in the "slavery" sense of the word. You do know you just agreed with me don't you?

I don't know if you're just pretending to be thick or not, but here's the definition of slavery. The essence is ownership of the slave as property, which clearly does not apply to requiring those in jail to work.

www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/slavery

Definition of slavery
1a: the practice of slaveholding
b: the state of a person who is a chattel of another

This thread and comments would simply not be permitted about any other country. *
Apologies ...... I don’t know why the British feel it’s ok to be so scornful and disrespectful of your country when they wouldn’t dream of saying such things about any other country.

As previous posters have stayed, the difference is in the perception of freedom. I’ve been absolutely appalled to see how we have rolled over and agreed to a police state within a few weeks. But that is the British all over. We can’t wait to give up work, stay inside on the sofa all day whilst expecting the govt to pick up the bills cos it’s our ‘right’ whilst spying on our neighbours and reporting any infraction to the police. American’s simply won’t do that .....and I for one am glad that there is one place on Earth that doesn’t just slavish follow the ruling party. Govt / monarchy/ dictatorship / whatever .....they are never ‘for’ the people ....at least most Americans realise this.

and I for one am glad that there is one place on Earth that doesn’t just slavish follow the ruling party

That is because of it's size. There are 11 states bigger than the UK, Texas is 3 times the size!

But that is the British all over. We can’t wait to give up work, stay inside on the sofa all day whilst expecting the govt to pick up the bills cos it’s our ‘right’ whilst spying on our neighbours and reporting any infraction to the police

Rubbish. I'm staying inside because of my and DHs age and he has a health condition that could be worrying if he caught it. If you think everyone is just slobbing on the sofa, that is as bad a generalisation as some of the comments on here about America. No one I know is acting like you have said... no dobbing in, no slobbing on the sofa... just sensible people trying to make the best of things and not wanting to catch a virus that is like Russian roulette.

Apologies ...... I don’t know why the British feel it’s ok to be so scornful and disrespectful of your country when they wouldn’t dream of saying such things about any other country.

@Noname99 - Thank you very sincerely. This has been my biggest surprise and disappointment since joining MN about 2 years ago.

I agree. There are many countries that if they were criticised like this, the thread would be pulled. However, the US seems to be fair game.

We all know Trump is a complete loon, and he doesn't help matters but still...
This thread makes me a bit uncomfortable TBH

I guess you missed all of the incredibly vile comments on this thread about the US that MNHQ had to delet

There have been 5 deletions I think

Of which a couple were anti-semitic ones

So really not much hatred at all

There are many countries that if they were criticised like this, the thread would be pulled. However, the US seems to be fair game

It's a thread comparing the differences in culture of 2 countries that have the same language, a background that split some 500 years ago, have a lot of shared influences and a lot of differences - and exploring the reasons for them.

What's wrong with that?

Nothing wrong with the premise but it was never going to stay on track.

Over the last few years I've seen quite a lot of insulting of the whole of the USA in posts on MN.

I'm on the Trump threads, don't think I've missed one out of the 100 of them, but that's different. That's deriding the head of a massive country who has done huge damage to the world and he affects us all.

@chomalungma Im just saying we actually split and said deuces 244 years ago. 500 years we were still English or whatever background you cane from

I agree with MissConductUSA's earlier post about what unites us. If there is one thing that does unite Americans around a shared value it's freedom of speech. It does make for some . . umm . . . interesting views being expressed by the fringes of society, but personally I had rather live in a society where the police don't generally have jurisdiction to investigate you for your stated opinions.

@SenecaFallsRedux.......I would go a step further and say that most Americans would unite to protect our freedoms outlined by our Constitution. The only right that actually causes division is the 2nd amendment but yet there have been no serious threats to the 2nd amendment.

OP, not just the USA and the UK, but the USA and Australia, as well. We saw those images on our screens over here and many of us just cannot understand the mindset over there. It's shocking. News reporters here were lost for words. Morons! was a word used a lot in my household while watching the footage on tv. Just unbelievable. They really are a very primitive, savage and backward lot. Well, at least those loons protesting. I've seen more humanity in war-torn 3rd world and developing countries.

The 13th Amendment in its own terms appears to confirm that prison labour does constitute slavery.

The League of Nations and later UN Anti-Slavery Convention of 1926 defines Slavery as the ownership of another human being. This 1926 Convention informs Article 4 of the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights which excludes prison labour for lawfuly convicted offenders.

'Modern Slavery' as recognised in international law extends the definition of slavery to include forced labour, with or without pay, indentured servitude and other forms of coercive labour and trafficking.

Forced Labour without pay, as exists in US Prisons, would be illegal under the European Convention on Human Rights.

**justanotherneighinparadise

I think the only thing that links our culture is language. Most of our ancestry comes from European countries. **

Eh? Late I know but vast majority of Americans are of European stock?? Issue around religious fundamentalism and jealously guarded rights came out of British seventeenth century struggles!

Forgot to add, to show how different Australia is from America (re-posted my post from another thread) - Never really appreciated him when he was our Prime Minister but former PM Paul Keating gave an excellent answer when on a panel on November 11 to discuss Trump's election:

“This society of ours is a better society than the United States,” said Keating. “It’s more even. It’s more fair. We’ve had a 50 percent increase in real incomes in the last 20 years. Median America has had zero. Zero. We have universal health protection, from the cradle to the grave. We have a retirement income system, with superannuation. We have high participation rates in schools. We don’t shoot our children in schools, and if they were to be shot we’d take the guns off the people who shot them. The Americans do not do this.”

If the United States applied to join the EU, and the geographical restrictions were set aside, it would not be eligible on numerous grounds under the ECHR: Death Penalty, Right to a Fair Trial and failure to ratify the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, including its provisions on the prohibition of child marriage, to name just a few.

They really are a very primitive, savage and backward lot. Well, at least those loons protesting.

There's huge inequality in the US and it can cause tunnel vision.

Some people will have had a mediocre education, never travelled anywhere outside their home county (so perhaps never met anyone who has different ideas to them) and there's not much of a social safety net if you fall on hard times. A better welfare system, some form of universal healthcare, etc. might help address this.

People are scared that they'll lose everything and there's not much to fall back on - although the govt. has issued stimulus cheques and unemployment is temporarily topped up by $600/pw. No universal mortgage holidays though (I believe you can ask your bank for assistance, but it's not guaranteed).

I don't agree with the protests at all, but I think that's why they're happening. They're scared of losing everything and that fear's making them ignore the bigger picture.

Forgot to add, to show how different Australia is from America

There do appear to be similarities as well. Didn't Oz have a fondness for locking up refugees in overseas camps?
Is this still happening?

I only just caught up on the thread and I am sitting here laughing.

Oh, @KathyBriggs360

I am Mexican American. I have a Mexican born father and four Mexican born grandparents. You really don't think the Spanish aren't "as bad" as the British? Oh gosh, I can't breathe, I am laughing so, so hard.

Please, please take this lock down time to EDUCATE yourself.

how different Australia is from America. ...There do appear to be similarities as well.

In the words of Randy Newman:

We'll save Australia
Don't want to hurt no kangeroo
We'll build an all-American theme park there
They got surfing too!

I do look at various US websites such as Fox News, NY Times etc - I just wonder what (in general) the view is of the way other Western societies live and their attitudes in general towards various economic and social policies?

I think the shared language between say the USA, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, the UK and Ireland does make it much more accessible to look at different ways of life.

My mind boggles at comments on mumsnet on any thread about America. The number of people who’ve never even been to the country but bash it because of what they see on the news, which is often wrong or represents a tiny part of the country. I’m from England but live in America, and the U.K. has it’s fair amount of idiots when it comes to this virus too.

*I think a lot of it is overexposure. We get far too much USA in our lives. We get abusive terms like 'boomer' that do not match our demographis, the bizzare 'Karen' thing which is overtly racist, the free and easy use of the word 'bitch' as a friendly insult between friends, etc.

We're sick of it.*

@Mockersxxxxx — what on earth is your point??

It’s almost as if you think Americans are coming into British homes and holding all of their guns to our infinitely more civilized heads and forcing us to adopt their words. There was indeed a postwar baby boom in the UK, albeit smaller than in the USA, so if some British people chose that term to describe people of a certain age it’s not inaccurate. In America it is not considered an “abusive” term but if you perceive it that way in the UK which I’m not sure is a widely held opinion I can’t see why you’d blame Americans. The whole “Karen” thing is a silly internet trend that a small number of British people have apparently picked up on but to my knowledge that was by choice. I don’t know any Brits who say bitch outside of dog shows but even if they use the British equivalent, cow , I hardly see how that’s much nicer.

American culture is popular in the UK and to a somewhat lesser extent the opposite is true as well. The reason for this is precisely because there are enough similarities between the two cultures that both are entertained by similar things. It’s unusual, for example, to see Australian TV shows and media in America, but they all love The Crown and Downton Abbey!

But to my knowledge it is British companies who negotiate to make American TV and movies available here. If you’re sick of it don’t blame America!

With respect to slavery you can split pedantic hairs all day but we all know that “slavery” is a VERY loaded word and not generally understood to mean what you describe. I am in no way defending the practice you describe, to the extent your description is accurate, but if you think all EU countries have spotless human rights records I don’t even know what to say.