To consider moving countries?

[ChickenStew]

I'd like some opinions please on the following. We're a family of 5 (3 DC). I'm an EU national, children dual nationality and DP is British.

I'm considering moving the family to my home country during the summer.
I first thought this in 2015 after the GE, I had hope the Brexit referendum would be softened by sensible moderates, but it's the current situation that is kind of the final straw.
I've lived here 20 years, we have a lovely house and a few close friends ( who don't care about the type of passport I have). Both of our jobs are looking pretty uncertain (think hospitality and self employed). So this could be a natural opportunity to take this step.

The advantages I can see of moving:

• free/much cheaper childcare (for all 3 DC) as school starts later. As it stands we can't send the kids to nursery (cost) without having secure jobs.
• greater political stability
• better healthcare/crisis response
• better work life balance in the long term
• a greater emphasis on social stability
• I fear the UK will economically recover less well than other country

Disadvantages:

• We'd have to leave our friends and DP's family
• We both have never worked in my home country, I have transferable skills, so should be okay. DP might have to take a significant step down
• rent out our house to complete strangers, and would have to initially have to comprise on new house/flat until we've settled
• home country is a bit dull, I love the flexibility, spontaneity and openness of the UK (which might be a thing of the past and might have contributed to the current state).
• I don't know what it's like to work & be a parent in home country as I left to do my degree.
• DP has Asperger's. He hates change, and thinks everything is going to bounce back in the summer.

It is key to him to have a purposeful job, but he also values security very highly. He'd initially struggle with the language.

AIBU - bad idea, huge upheaval involving a lot of uncertainty

AINBU - go for it! Long term prospects warrant the risk.

I think now is the worst possible time to be thinking about making such a change, honestly. The logistics will be really difficult, depending on two different countries permitting travel, removals, house rental and so on at the same time. Plus getting a job is incredibly difficult in almost every sector at the moment (unless you're in healthcare, I suppose). And settling in a new place while there's still social distancing going on will be very hard indeed.

I think you're crazy to be considering it this year.

I am looking to move come August-September (not to my home country, to a third country), to a better climate and more relaxed lifestyle. I think property prices in Southern Europe will fall significantly after zero tourism season, I am monitoring a couple of seafront smallholdings at the moment.

Does not sound as if the move will be great for your DP.

I think this will be terribly difficult to do with the current situation in all countries.
Finding work will be twice as hard as usual. For your DP that is going to be nigh impossible if he doesn't speak the language. (Unless he's in a field that has universal English, such as music business or software engineering)
Do the children speak your native language already? Maybe spend this lockdown time improving everyone's language skills?

Thank you everyone for your opinions!
Looks like we need to have a better look at job opportunities in the new country considering the current climate. I hadn't considered settling-in in the new place, which indeed could be quite weird under repeated lockdowns.
We've moved regularly in the past, and could do the move ourselves if we had to.

I am concerned DP will not have much work in the next 12 months and that not working will be harder for him than starting fresh somewhere else. His profession is usually in high demand in the other country. The step down would be because of the language/complex qualifications.

I like the idea of using the coming year to prepare, it would feel less rushed. On the other hand, I'm slightly concerned about money. In a year's time moving might seem like an even bigger gamble when our savings are depleted. Redundancy is a distinct possibility for me . but I suppose it hasn't happened yet.

Depends on your home country.

No I wouldn't. And that's coming from someone who DID emigrate 4 years ago. From the UK to Oz.

I chose to do it with DH and our DC because we'd failed to get anywhere in the UK....we had a shitty little flat and no prospects.

We got in because DH is Aussie and his parents paid for our move.

It was the best decision....but if I'd owned a nice house in the UK and had friends....well, I would not have emigrated.

Emigrating is HARD.

It's really, really hard.

I know I made the right choice....4 years down the line we have a MUCH better lifestyle, nice home, good work prospects...I've done better professionally here.

But what you describe...well you sound ok where you are.

If I'd left a situation where we were ok....every time I got homesick I'd have thought "Oh I'm going back!"

As it was, there was little for me to miss. Family yes. But when you have your children's futures to consider and you're not doing as well as you could do professionally...it's easy to leave.

What does you husband say?

Given what you've mentioned about him not knowing the language and not liking change it doesn't sound like it'd be something he'd consider.

We are considering a move back to my husband's home country (Denmark). I can understand a lot of Danish but my speaking is pretty atrocious. However in the field I work in the lack of Danish wouldn't be a barrier to me getting a decent job. If that wasn't the case there is no way I would consider a move.

I'd love to know where this utopia is...

sounds like you just need to get out of wherever you live - London? Plenty of UK places with good work/life balance, much less populated etc. Arseholes anywhere of course.

and if you are leaving, sell up. 'rent house to complete strangers' is a huge red flag for someone with no clue about the risks and responsibilities of being a landlord.

I think the difficulty at the moment is that no-one knows how this will.play out over the next 12, 18, 24 months. We're only at the very start of this (sorry, sounds hideously pessimistic, it's not meant to).
Times are so strange, this might just be the best time to make that leap, because everywhere is in a state of flux, and even life here is going to keep changing rapidly.
That said, sometimes we need some consistency when everything around us is changing so much.

Is your home nation stable, with good leadership, scientific research, strong infrastructure etc? Likely you'd be no worse off by moving. That said, you would lose your support network here..

I suppose that's me coming down firmly in favour of sitting on the fence!

As an expat for the past 20 years, I could never return to the U.K. Much of what I loved about it has gone, and the things I did not like have got worse. Make sure that your country hasn’t undergone similar changes, OP, before you consider a move, and think about how you’ll deal with it if your family doesn’t settle.

FortunesFave
As it was, there was little for me to miss. Family yes. But when you have your children's futures to consider and you're not doing as well as you could do professionally...it's easy to leave.

That's how feel! It's my kids future that is going to suffer. They will bear the burden of whatever austerity-hell will follow. While we look okay from the outside, my values tell me I need change.

Illegal Fred
What does you husband say?
He's not jumping up and down with joy, is probably the best way to describe it. Other country is not completely foreign to him. He's picked up some unhelpful stereotypes - only some of which are true . Our usual dynamic is that I plan and he offers his opinion when plans have progressed a bit further. Sometimes we end up in agreement, or shelve an idea or work out something else. I feel he'd be okay.

haba
Is your home nation stable, with good leadership, scientific research, strong infrastructure etc? Likely you'd be no worse off by moving. That said, you would lose your support network here.
Sounds like we're talking about the same place. And I share much of your view. I don't think 18 months is unrealistic. It feels a support network that's a short drive away might as well be in a different country atm . I can't stop thinking that we should have moved a year ago..

makingmammaries
As an expat for the past 20 years, I could never return to the U.K. Much of what I loved about it has gone, and the things I did not like have got worse. Make sure that your country hasn’t undergone similar changes, OP, before you consider a move, and think about how you’ll deal with it if your family doesn’t settle.
I'll keep this in mind. I'm aware of some significant changes, but it's worth exploring further.

Is it Germany? Sorry, I know we shouldn’t be playing guess the country...

I think that 20 years is a long time for a lot of change in the other country too.

How do the people there take to English people?
Does oh speak the language?
What about benefits etc there?

Without knowing what country are you from is hard to really compare apples with apples.

AIBU - bad idea, longer term prospects in the UK could mean great opportunity.

AINBU - go for it! But huge upheaval involving a lot of uncertainty.

Weren't expecting that one, were you !

Put children first, DP second, you third. Don't drag him along, let him stay and treat him honourably and respectfully whatever you decide.

You need to go now while still under the transition agreement as it'll be easier for your husband to get residency while still technically in the eu

If DP could not get work, could you manage on one income?

I get where you're coming from. I am an immigrant in the UK (non-EU) and have contemplated moving back several times over the past few years. The political climate here is really worrying, and while I don't bear the brunt of the current immigrant-phobia exhibited by some people, I find the entire Brexit situation very unnerving. It doesn't help that the NHS looks like it's being sold before it collapses and the education system (from a government policy standpoint) is laughable.

My DH also has autism, which is why we haven't bit the bullet and gone. Adjusting to a different country and culture would be significantly harder for him than it was for me.

I would advise you to seriously talk it over with your DH. Discuss all aspects of a move, including financial, cultural, professional, and political. It has to be right for your family and it's a big decision - if you move and decide a year later that it's not working out, I think it could be very difficult and expensive for you to return on a visa.

I totally understand your feeling...

Where's the UK we love?...Don't worry it will come back, ...reason will prevail, ...ALL YOU NEED IS LOVE...then it gets worse and worse. Austerity...Brexit....Covid19....Thousands of unnecessary dead...more future austerity hell. Top 5 GDP country has run out of 20p masks WTH ?!!

It's like constantly giving a bad BF a chance and he does the same again. If you msgd Mumsnet that question everyone would say tut tut dump him!

Could here get worse with our leadership & the vile media owned by hate filled billionaires stoking national & racial division to keep everyone at each others throats? YEH probably. I say seriously consider it, IF where you're going is better. Pot.. frying pan.

We moved 4 months ago to Oz from the U.K. I can honestly say it’s the BEST THING WE HAVE EVER DONE.
I know it’s early days, DH has a job and I’m still looking. From paying £15000 a year for my DC to go to school to having free schooling here, we are saving a lot of money. Small house in the U.K. to large house with pool, DC are happy (7 and 3) and are enjoying the relaxed lifestyle. We found life in the U.K. so pushy and stressful for them. Home at 6pm from school, sport every afternoon, school starting at 8:10am. Long days.
Now they’re outdoors all the time and I think their mental health is so much better.
Yes, leaving friends has been exceptionally difficult for me. DH not so much as he worked such long hours in the U.K. But it’s a massive mental shift. I choose happiness and to look at everything in a positive light. DH isn’t as positive to me in general, but he keeps saying “I wish we’d left 10 years ago!”

I would advocate leaving in a heartbeat, but then I read your last point about your DH and his concerns about language etc. If it isn’t completely a joint decision, it will be ten times harder. As women we tend to carry the emotions of our whole families, and it will be so hard if he’s not 100% onboard.
I don’t know what the answer is, but I wish you lots of luck in your planning and decision making!

In the past three years I have seen a side of UK that I never knew existed.
The hatred for foreigners coming from all areas.
The country is not as appealing as it used to be and if I could afford it, I would leave as soon as it's possible.

Sorry, I don't know which country it is, those were just general questions!
Perhaps from my username though...

I’m thinking the same op. Now things have changed so much, it almost looks like I could keep my job at my current company, and move countries. (Hoping against hope!)

My dream is to buy a site somewhere beautiful on the edge of a village or town by the sea in my home country, buy a flat pack home that would go up in 6 weeks, and move in. Would love it!