Police guidelines for officers on what is a reasonable excuse - worth reading

[chomalungma]

www.college.police.uk/What-we-do/COVID-19/Documents/What-constitutes-a-reasonable-excuse.pdf

Interesting reading. Especially with regards to driving for exercise, what exercise is, going shopping and the allottments.

The police have no authority to make rules though, they don’t form any part of the legislative process. It’s so worrying how many people don’t understand this

Agree. Likewise people saying that the police have been given new powers. Er no, the police have exactly the same powers they have always had - to enforce our laws. A new law is in operation and the police should enforce it, in exactly the same way as they would any other new (criminal) law.

Was the South Downs/15 minute drive example before these new guidelines came out - I think this was only published on Tuesday or Wednesday this week.

The point about the guidelines is that they acknowledge what the LAW is - that you can go out if you have a ‘reasonable excuse’ not just for ‘essential journeys’ and that there is no ban on driving to exercise. The law didn’t change.

The South Downs example happened about 2 weeks ago.

Guidelines saved to phone and we went 5 minutes by car to the local woodland very first thing this morning with the kids and the dog to spend 45 minutes walking. Couple of slapped arse faces from people for us daring to arrive by car but impeccable distancing maintained throughout - layout of the woods is such you can discuss with approaching people who is going which way to keep apart.

Expecting to be social media shamed at some point.

Where it says you are allowed out to give help to a vulnerable person - a friend of mine is saying that I'm allowed to visit her because she has mental health issues (so do I) and that counts as vulnerable.

I disagree but I can't find any mention of that scenario to reference... vulnerable is elderly or those with serious physical health conditions right?

I'm not planning to do it. It would just be easier to say no with back up

You’re saying someone with a mental heath issue couldn’t be vulnerable carrie?

It’s a question of how severely they’re affected, not whether it’s a physical or mental problem.

No no not at all. In any other situation of course we can be vulnerable. But what I mean is when the word vulnerable is used in the context of corona guidelines I didn't think mental health was covered?

Obviously if my friend was in immediate danger of harming themselves or someone else or couldn't carry out every day tasks etc. Without help that would be different but we're talking me going round for a chat and some wine and generally "perking each other up".

Doesn't seem essential but she's adamant and I can't find any definitive advice

I feel bad for her, I really do. And lord knows I'd benefit from a get together but it just seems a bit of a technicality to break rules over. Sorry to derail - am asking in relation to the guidelines posted on the thread, just thought I'd give a little more info

It is tricky as I have pals and a family member who have depression and live alone and would really benefit form social contact. It would be fairly high numbers wouldn’t it?

Agreed - so many in that situation having to just get by. I feel wrong using the guidelines to be allowed something many don't have

I think some other countries are allowing visits with one person and that would be great for us in maybe 3 weeks - I am an optimist

It is worth remembering that these are Police issued guidelines - on how police officers should deal with people - they are not the law (as written into legislation by parliament - e.g.: The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) Regulations 2020 - (26th March 2020) section 6 of which is on restriction of movement...

the above is the law - and these police guidelines are simply how one group of people chooses to interpret that law - as we have seen - sometimes interpretation is as much about how someone wants it to be as what the law actually says!

the section on exercise simply states:
(b)to take exercise either alone or with other members of their household;

so there never has been a restriction on where / how exercise is taken - if you want to go to the Highlands to yomp a few hillocks, that is legal (might not be sensible - but it is legal!)

interestingly - the bit on shopping is: to obtain basic necessities, including food and medical supplies - which technically cuts out the purchase of anything which is not a basic necessity - i.e. champagne / gin / chocolate / etc.

so - enjoy life sensibly - if you can ask yourself:

• am I exposing more people than necessary to contact
• am I potentially spreading the virus more than necessary
• could I avoid what I am doing

then perhaps don't - but doing things where you are on your own and not affecting other people - crack on - life has to continue alongside the virus, not be subsumed by it!

interestingly - the bit on shopping is: to obtain basic necessities, including food and medical supplies - which technically cuts out the purchase of anything which is not a basic necessity - i.e. champagne / gin / chocolate / etc.

It cuts out leaving the house to get these things but if you left the house for pasta, loo roll and flour then you are entitled to pick these things up while you are out (and presumably only buy these things if the pasta etc is out of stock)

Yes, exactly. There is also the issue of basic necessities varying between individuals. If you're chemically dependent on alcohol, for example, which is at least hundreds of thousands of people in this country if not more, the gin or equivalent is very much a necessity!

Interesting Government tweet

If people used common sense we wouldn't need lists of rules.

So many people reading the rules looking for a loophole instead of thinking "hold on. Is this sensible?"

So yes for example you can use the rules to justify visiting any friend. if you don't care that you are risking that friends health as well as your own. Presumably you wouldn't use it to visit your best friend. Only 3rd rate friends you wouldn't miss too much when they died.

Thanks for this OP, very useful. I’m in Scotland but I imagine most of what you’ve posted would be relevant here too.

The exercise guidelines are particularly useful for me. I live in a village built on a steep hill and it’s not very good for walking/jogging (certainly not with my level of fitness). However, there are lots of very quiet walks I could access by driving 10 minutes max and parking.