Police guidelines for officers on what is a reasonable excuse - worth reading

[chomalungma]

www.college.police.uk/What-we-do/COVID-19/Documents/What-constitutes-a-reasonable-excuse.pdf

Interesting reading. Especially with regards to driving for exercise, what exercise is, going shopping and the allottments.

I'm now trying to find some information like this for Wales. Very interesting

@IamAporcupine ))) gosh it really has brought out the worst in people

That's really interesting OP.

Though I would point out that these are also just guidelines for police action. They don't define how the courts will see interpret the boundaries. And it's the courts' decisions that ultimately matter.

Wasn't asking for the MN faux-concern "fuck off we're going to be vile regardless" eye flutter of concern by the way - just think it's time that people begin to take some ownership of the vileness of their actions in the digital sphere - especially when people are stuck in a situation where online is so much less escapable than in the usual state of affairs.

MN is probably the most toxic for it at the moment of all the places online - closely followed by the "my street claps harder than your street" local FB group - at least they've just transferred their usual "my kids' school is better than your kids' school" bragging to this new avenue of bragging and bickering.

If like to know this too mikki

My partner lives in England and me in Scotland. He wants to pack up the car and come and move in with me until all this is over but doesn't think he can. And that police will stop him and send him back etc

We usually split our time between our homes too.

I can’t believe how terrible some people are being !! I have not got a clue what my neighbours are up to, I shop for the lady next door as she is 75 and does not want to go to the shop, but I think she still goes for a walk.
I only see the others at 8pm on Thursday.
I think some people are just loving this they remind me of MR Hodges from Dads Army, lucky I don’t have one of those on my street and if I did I would tell them were to go!!

I think there has also been clarity about driving to get to a walk. It’s ok as long as the drive doesn’t exceed the exercise time. I think that’s right

I don't have an issue with people driving to take exercise in the middle of nowhere. I agree that most of it comes down to common sense, which seems to be sadly lacking in many. I think a lot of people will interpret it as meaning they can/should go to local beauty spots, which are then likely to become busy which kind of defeats the point of the lockdown.

We live near a forest, the forestry commission has stated that it is closed, that people should not visit, the car park gates are locked and the vehicle entrance is coned off. So all the people who want to go to the forest anyway, for a walk or a bike ride, park along the road (partially blocking it) or park in the village itself meaning there are cars/people everywhere going to and from the forest. It's far busier in our village at the moment than usual with people desperate to get their exercise, in a forest which is full of other people!

Thank God for this document although I can imagine a lot of people both on here and in RL who will still argue the toss over it. Thank you OP for sharing.

I wish I'd seen this sooner. We'd planned to spend a fortnight (at least) looking after my friends toddler dd while she did lambing 12 hours a day. It would have meant a 2 hour drive and we assumed we couldn't do it. Now friends dm is looking after her as she lives up the road but she's elderly and in the shielding category. Now feel awful that we could have gone

I'm not sure about the guidance regarding "providing support to vulnerable people". It says meeting a friend is probably not acceptable. But for many people meeting a friend IS support.

I'm pretty sure I count as vulnerable. I have known MH issues relating to underlying autism. I am known to MH services (although not actively as they gave up on me). Also a lot of notes about me on the police system, in terms of welfare checks. I live on my own and the isolation is getting to me. I already battle suicidal ideation.

It might reach a point where a visit from a friend would save my life. I'd rather not reach that point though because I don't think I'd recover. I'd hoped that the "care of vulnerable people" clause would cover a visit from a friend if things were going very downhill.

We're in danger of turning into a nation of school sneaks.

That’s exactly the same here when the police refused people entrance to the NT car park. The FC closed off their land and huge parking area weeks ago. Parking in policed areas such as this makes way more sense than leaving cars all over the place. There are entrances and exits and timed tickets could be given. That would have been far better than closing them off completely and both these areas are 10 mins drive from a couple of towns. If they were policed effectively they could have been used.

@bettertimesarecomingnow how could we get clarification ? Yeah mine wants to do the same but tricky as we both have kids so need to return to the places we live when we have our kids and neither of us have room for all of us to move in together ! How can we find out ??

It's good to see the 'rules' laid out properly at last. Just one thing I would add though,I sincerely hope that the police are going to stick to it too. My friend said that she was 'had a go at' by a police officer for daring to sit on a bench a short way from a supermarket after getting her shopping. She has two dodgy knees and had an operation on one of them a few months ago. She found the standing in line for 40 minutes to get into the supermarket very wearing so was having a rest. No sooner had she sat down than a PC appeared and ticked her off! She explained her situation,saying she only intended sitting there for 5 minutes,but she says he wasn't really interested,said that she was 'loitering for no reason'.

Very sensible thanks OP

I've found police very reasonable. We were stopped in the car today and questioned, as there were four of us (myself, DP and two children). They first tried to claim that having more than one person in the car was unlawful.

However we explained that we were doing a food shop (with only DP going in to the shop) then taking a walk as a family from somewhere accessible for my mobility scooter (pavements near home too narrow to do this) they were absolutely fine and allowed us to continue. Explaining that we understood the spirit of lockdown but adjustments were required for me to get outside as a disabled person, and trying to do it all in one journey outside the home, seemed to be fine with them.

Those rules are England only
Not uk wide
There will be other specific guidance in the other home nations

To clarify, because of devolution there are separate laws for N. Ireland, Wales, England, and Scotland.

Four sets of laws. However the wording applying to leaving home is identical in each country's laws.

This police guidance is not law or rules, it's just a common sense interpretation/guidance for the police. Identical principles would apply to Wales, Scotland & N Ireland because the laws are the same.

So for all intents & purposes, while this is guidance for the English police, it is likely to have been compiled by people with a reasonable grasp of law, and would apply to each of the four countries.

Although that guidance says "England", all four home nations are singing from the same hymn sheet on the lockdown. Rules are the same in Glasgow as they are in Gloucester.

If nothing else, hanging around long enough for a brief chat is the difference between assuming your elderly parents are managing fine and realising that they're not.

I’ve become quite numb to all of this but this has really cut through the grey. Too bloody right @MereDintofPandiculation.

I've no choice but to sit for a long period due to disablilty and if my blood sugar goes hypo or hyper I can there awhile and need food. If I'm having flashbacks or panic attacks it the same thing.

The police where I am have discussed it with me, but the fact is if I only go far enough whereby I don't need to sit for a time I'd literally walk a few yards only and as I've essentials to get that's not an option as all our taxis have now stopped (there's two doing hospital runs only), police agreed it's fine in those circumstances.

I've been reported several times. It's pathetic really. I still need to get my meds every day (and speak to pharmacist the only professional now seeing me) and I still need to get food every few days as I only have a tiny room. Whilst everyone else seems to not get it, I'm lucky the police do.

Very happy to have confirmed. We have been walking locally and am pleased we can drive out further to nicer green spaces for the kids.

I don’t think buying paint and brushes to paint the kitchen should be under unreasonable though. Keeping a place in reasonable decorative order is part and parcel or maintenance of a property. It also contradicts the sentence under ‘comments’: ”In general terms, a person has a reasonable excuse to visit the shops which remain open to customers under the Regulations.”

V useful. Thank you for posting.

There will be always some people who enjoy policing others and waving the rule book. However, this guide acknowledges that public statements around the time of lockdown led to confusion. So I think some people said online things were not allowed in good faith and only now is the messaging getting clearer.

Yes I thought that was stupid and it’s difficult to draw a line between improvements and maintenance. Maintenance generally improves a home! DD was going to paint the front door of her flat! Just waiting for the paint delivery!

Very interesting. I've been really strict all the way through but as someone with a newborn, a 2 year old , suffering post natal depression and having a relapse of a long term health condition I've been wondering if I could have help from a family member. Looking at this I may well be able to get some care help after all. Obviously within reason. Otherwise if my condition worsened I won't be able to look after the kids at all.