To think our new normal could be a better way of life?

[Wehttam]

Ok first of all, hear me out. Maybe this is hypothetical fantasy but I think it has merit.

As we are adjusting to Lockdown and both its benefits and disadvantages, I have started thinking about how civilisation may be able to use this as a starting point for a new way of life, accepting the previous 24/7 have it all lifestyle is fundamentally poisonous to our wellbeing.

I fully understand this is a global pandemic and is catastrophic for many people, losing loved ones, suffering illness and the fear of how this could potentially affect many people’s lives going forward economically is a worry no one wants or needs, I am not minimising this nor am I advocating for blanket suffering or pain before you come for me.

Environmentally this is momentarily allowing the planet to slowly recover from one of its biggest problems, Us. Look outside, the air is cleaner already, the noise we had so become used to has quietened, our frantic pace of living has slowed, for most of us this will have untold health benefits as well as benefits to nature we will see manifest further over the coming weeks.

I fully appreciate how for many people this is an uncertain time, those suffering DV or poverty are living in hell, the situation right now is unpeeling the veneer society generally paints over these problems though. What if our new reality was to help those who are vulnerable and suffering but still maintain this level of calm muted living.

Excessive commuting, over consumption of single use anything, traffic everywhere, takeaways, shops, bars clubs, restaurants catering for every niche or whim, flying everywhere incessantly, worrying about having he latest this or that, which all means sweet FA at the moment. What it all boils down to is all of that was needless to actually live and breathe properly wasn’t it?

Eventually once Lockdown starts to be lifted, are you willing to go back to that chaos the outside world had become? I’m not so sure I am and I dont think it will be any good for those who do. Thoughts?

@Wehttam hellooo yes I am good thanks. Funnily enough I have decided to use my spare time on furlough to do painting, and an online Macroeconomics course, to try and understand the economy and financial news! I went into it thinking I'd be able to "predict the future" but all the course has taught me is that every economic theory was OK until it didn't apply to the latest downturn......

My job has no work for me so no income. I earn a low wage but am appointed by the government so don’t qualify for the help. I am a single parent so can’t take up any other employment as my dc is at home. Have no income. Can’t do my usual mh saving activities. My dc has no social nyeracyim with peers. We normally lead a chilled life and enjoy the little things. Now I feel frantic inside most of the time, though it’s starting to change to catatonic. I have no income. How is this good? I’m not really at risk and nor is my child. I have very elderly relatives isolated effectively til they die and I’m sourcing them food by being online in dead of night. I can’t sleep. I can’t read. I can’t watch tv. It’s awful

I honestly don't think bars/clubs/gyms will stay closed for 18 months. The government will want the economy going back to normal, at least to some extent, so it's not in tatters. Remember how quickly things changed from "Cheltenham and football is fine" to "everybody stay indoors". It could all change just as quickly the other way.

@MigginsMs please quote the areas where you feel I am revelling in this. How is wishing for a better new future being happy for it to cause maximum damage? I think you only see what you want to see. Have you even read my first post? I am revelling in the fact that the air is clean and mother nature is probably very happy right now that we have stopped damaging the planet temporarily, are you not?

Is it wrong I want to see a silver lining in such a bleak horrible situation where people are losing their lives and loved ones?

Gyms bars and restaurants will not be shut for 18 months

I’m not sure where this vitriol has come from on a thread suggesting life may be better after all of this?

In all seriousness and in the spirit of extending the olive branch I do think you have a point. I’m not sure you’ve necessarily expressed it in the best way though IMO. Just looks a bit dismissive of the turmoil and uncertainty a lot of us find ourselves in.

Miggins - we are living a 23/24 hours house arrest and not speaking to anyone face-to-face. How dare someone celebrate this?

Gyms bars and restaurants will not be shut for 18 months

Just found your degree in economics? Or is it your crystal ball? You’re right, a lot of them will never re-open.

I am revelling in the fact that the air is clean and mother nature is probably very happy right now that we have stopped damaging the planet temporarily, are you not?

I’ve not set foot on a plane for the best part of a decade because I’ve not felt able to justify doing it for the environmental impact just to have a holiday so yes I do see that. I’ve noticed the clean air and even here where it raid constantly we’ve had barely a drop for weeks. But equally we have food to put on the table and lives to lead and they kind of have to be worth living afterwards or all the current turmoil won’t be worth it

Yup dementors revelling
And no I won't be telling you my educational background

*rained

I’m not celebrating it @Gwenhwyfar.

I think there will be a recession, mass unemployment and a major rise in mental health problems.

While I can see what OP is trying to get at, in reality I think the world is going to be a very scary place for the next few years.

It would be great if we could change direction but I think that the interests of the banks and big business are too strong. We've already seen that many of them are only interested in their own profits (I'm looking at you Richard Branson, Philip Green, various premier league clubs, banks who won't give access to government backed loans) and short of a revolution they will fight to preserve their positions.

Yes it would be great if we could start valuing people in minimum wage jobs and ensure that they had a decent standard of living but people have short memories and when faced with higher taxes and more cuts in services people tend to become less altruistic.

I really hope I'm wrong and I'm probably feeling pissed off because I can't see my 90 year old Dad who is in in hospital on his own with memory problems and I'm terrified that he is going to catch the virus in hospital.

The bottom line is none of us know what is going to happen, not even the governments, and while it would be nice to think that things will change for the better, in reality I am far from convinced.

@Ravenmum Bike shops are allowed to open, should find another one is still open if your usual is shut.

unless enough people dream dreams / God moves people’s hearts to love their neighbour instead of focusing on themselves.

Seriously?!?

unless enough people dream dreams / God moves people’s hearts to love their neighbour instead of focusing on themselves

This is the sort of tripe that gets people’s backs up.

Goodness. The op did say this current situation is hard for many. The total ban on social activities is hard for us all. But there’s nothing wrong with acknowledging that the situation before covid-19 was not sustainable either socially or environmentally. Many people were already in the shit.

We do need a complete paradigmatic shift economically. How about seeing work as the artificial construct it is. Too many people being run off their feet doing long shifts in low paid necessary work, barely managing to make a living off it in the “6th richest country” on the 🌍 . More unnecessary stuff produced which damages the environment, and produced in an unnecessarily damaging fashion. We’ve seen the fragility of globalism and the extremes of international specialisation need to be unpicked. This is not optional. The current difficulties are a wake up call only. We can’t continue like this.

Britain is not self sufficient but it is capable of producing more small scale and locally, instead of us all running around faster and faster like rats in a maze so that the very richest can wreck our environment for levels of luxuries unheard of in the past.

Our previous way of living was not sustainable, in fact climate emergency was the phrase on everyone's lips. Change seemed impossible but then suddenly covid19 showed that societies actually can change, and really surprisingly quickly. Obviously some aspects of the change are deeply shit.

But there is definitely an opportunity to say, what shall we keep and what shall we change? I'd vote we do decide that cruise ships are just too bad for the environment, and that we don't go back to the previous level of flights. Especially now so many businesses have learned to have meetings online.

Universal basic income used to be a mad fringe idea and now our government is long way towards it with furlough payments etc (Obviously, not reaching everyone). And all countries are in the same situation so there's an opportunity to re-make the rules of economics, after all they're fairly artificial with all govts printing money etc. Human wellbeing is the important thing, not 'How the markets are reacting'.

Chilled agree

@ThrowingGoodAfterBad THIS 10000%

@chillied THIS too 10000%

Fuck me! I'm so awful, I just don't see anything positive in the deaths of tens of thousands (probably more), the suffering of many now that social activities have mostly ceased, the untold misery and anxiety of those with disabilities and mental health conditions and even pregnant women who are facing giving birth in a scary environment, massive poverty on the rise. Can't imagine why? Reaches for Kool Aid.

I don't know why people are talking about how this is the end of a materialistic society. We aren't marching into a glorious socialist new dawn here. Socialism and communism too both rely on people working and generating money, just an interventionist approach to the distribution of it. But you do need money for it to work. All that we've got now is capitalism paused and propped up by state funds - that's the frigging opposite of socialism. It was never about giving people money for inactivity.

mother nature is probably very happy right now that we have stopped damaging the planet temporarily, are you not?

? Mother Nature is happy? Does Elvis talk to you? There's no such thing, it's a rock revolving around a dying star. Good god. I thought my neighbour had some good weed.

peppermint try to find the tiny glimmers of positive because otherwise a bleak black cloud will take over your mental health. It’s a horrible situation and a lesson no one wanted to learn but here we are.

What we choose to take from it will define the future of not only our lives but the next generations to come. Unless we accept change and go with the flow of adaptation then it’s going to be a very difficult transition.

Oh yeah and re the environment, good luck solving the problem of how to harness resources in a sustainable and equitable way if the only people able to think about it are a bunch of white middle class wankers doing African drumming in fucking Trafalgar Square because all that's left of science, technology and engineering is focused solely on keeping the lights on and the water running by any means necessary.