Younger people should be rewarded for lockdown via affordable housing

[Ordree]

As others have noted, young people (not just those in frontline roles) are making enormous sacrifices to protect others, mostly but not exclusively from much older age groups. They will be bequeathed a damaged planet, a ruined economy and they will have done further damage to their mental health by staying indoors for months on end. They are the ones paying older people's pensions when they won't have anything like the same financial security to look forward to themselves. Yes I know older people paid their elders pensions during their working lives, bit never has there been such an imbalance. As the economy is likely to be ruined short to medium term anyway, would it not be reasonable to start the biggest givernment-funded housebuilding programme ever, allow younger people who have just bought to write off negative equity losses against tax, and essentially redress some of the appalling imbalance between generations and classes?

There are circumstances imo where it is absolutely right to say that things as they stand are wrong

Ah now that I do agree with, since everyone's entitled to lobby for change in accordance with whatever their views happen to be

And those who do the paying are entitled to say no ...

To answer the question posed to me a few pages back about who is a younger person: I have definitions in the graphs and commentary I posed from the FT. If you cannot be bothered to read them I will define what “young” means: 34 years old or under.

those who do the paying are entitled to say no
Do young people not pay income tax and national insurance? They are the ones who will in large part be paying for the costs associated with the current restrictions

Sigh. Many (although I accept not all) of us "selfish" older people have fought for the benefits that the younger generations enjoy. When we were warning them that the NHS and public services were being destroyed, many of them went out a voted for the cuts as long as it gave them an extra penny off the income tax bill. The list of things that "they" expected to be delivered into their laps for next to no effort - decent pay, holidays (or even the annual leave to take holidays), employment rights, pensions - were fought for by older generations who had nothing.

And some entitled millennial twaddle expects that they should get handed everything and even more because they had to work from home or look after their own children for a few weeks? And who on earth do they think will be giving them all this?

Wake up call - the economy of the planet is shattered to a degree that will take a decade or more to recover from. The UK government alone has wracked up £billions in additional debt to jumpstart services that they actively destroyed to a point where they were unable to even provide basic services effectively, never mind manage a crisis - debt that will have to be repaid. Shareholders and the wealthy will still expect to rake it in hand over fist, and the majority will pay for that expectation.

There won't be any freebies and giveaways. The young will have to do what we did. Fight for a better and more just society. The things "you" - the young - think fell into our laps, didn't fall into our laps. There was nobody giving it all away...

posting drivel on Mumsnet.

Exactly Ordree. They will be paying all their working lives for this level of borrowing. Austerity will be a walk in the park. The older generation will not be paying because they won’t be around to pay.

It is well established that some degree holders don’t get great jobs. But then they don’t pay back the fees either. There is a pecking order of universities and teachers should be making sure the best academic young people go to the best universities. Again research shows that RG university grads out perform those from other universities in terms of earnings. So always aim high. The fact that more people get degrees is a good thing and the state still pays for a the majority of degrees because over 50% don’t pay the fee loans back!

The shareholders are often pension funds . They invest in the stock market. For heavens sake please try and understand how the economy and share profits work!!! They most certainly are not all wealthy individuals - they are the pensions of ordinary people.

“They” includes me, by your definition of young (which isn’t a dictionary definition and so may be defined in the graphs you have posted but that doesn’t make it the definition where it has not otherwise been defined) Bubbles and I hardly think my contribution of wfh with a 1 year old warrants a heafty financial reward. I do presume a rise in tax and NIC because I have a basic grasp of economy but also understand “the government” isn’t some mystical entity with a never ending pot of gold at the end of a rainbow.

It isn’t my definition of young. It’s the research done by the ONS on wealth. So it’s used by the government and is the best definition we have. It’s not my personal definition.

Do young people not pay income tax and national insurance? They are the ones who will in large part be paying for the costs associated with the current restrictions

There isn’t a sudden exemption from tax when you pass a certain age, most of us pay it, regardless of age. The cost of the last war was still being paid off until 2006. My generation paid for an event that occurred before we were born for 30 years.

It’s a definition relating to the evidence you have posted, we’ll see if OP agrees as they are yet to answer this question.

For what it’s worth anecdotally OP, I bought my first house as a single woman 4 years ago at 25. I lived with my parents until the (to whom I’m grateful to) to enable me to save my deposit. My take home pay was a little over £1,300 pcm but I managed to both love and save. I don’t live in London, but could commute with relative ease in less than 2 hour if the need arose.

I also have an enormous university debt, including for my post grad which is essential for my career which I’m very, very slowly chipping away at.

It’s entirely possible to buy a house, it’s difficult, but not impossible.

I too believe the government will be on the ropes financially for a long time to come. At 34 years old you will be paying taxes for the next 30 years or even 35 years. So you will pay more than anyone aged 70 plus right now. That’s all I’m saying. You might well find that a big burden further down the line.

I’m giving my wealth away my estate is as small as possible 7 years before death! So hopefully my young DDs will have a cushion and indeed the bank of mum and dad is widespread in financing house deposits. It’s fairly natural for those who see themselves as paying indefinitely to seek better outcomes for themselves. As indeed previous generations have done. By all research they are starting from a worse position than their parents and possibly grandparents. There really cannot be any dispute about this. So, they will seek improvements to their futures. Like every generation.

I also object to being preached at by people like the OP for ruining the planet. The ordinary people never wanted this to happen to the planet we shouted and screamed and tried to make ourselves heard. But big corporations and governments do not listen because short term gain shouts to them more loudly. It was inflicted upon us.

If you support, for example, Extinction Rebellion OP - think how little heed the wealthy decision makers pay to them. Did you never wonder if people who came before you thought the same things?

So it’s used by the government and is the best definition we have. It’s not my personal definition

Thank goodness the OP has finally bothered to answer.

Would have been far easier countless pages ago but still.

On the basis of the definition? OP you’re being unreasonable.

29 not 34. Apologies!

Do young people not pay income tax and national insurance?

Of course - once income passes the threaholds they pay tax/NI just like everyone else

They are the ones who will in large part be paying for the costs associated with the current restrictions

Not on recent tax takes they won't; see table from Full Fact

I’m not the OP!!! Why do you think I am? Read the thread! I posted the ONS graphs way back with what the government will use as a definition. Anyone else posting could have done the same research instead of bleating about the op!

I’m not the OP!!! Why do you think I am? Read the thread! I posted the ONS graphs way back with what the government will use as a definition. Anyone else posting could have done the same research instead of bleating about the op!

I have read the full thread. There’s no point doing any research until the OP had confirmed what she was thinking - it’s her thread.

And why do I think you’re the OP? Do a quick google on common forum behaviour. Especially on threads where they’re not going your way.

Nothing you’re saying is revising my opinion.

But it’s not the current tax take that will pay. It’s who pays what in the future. Of course currently lightly older people pay more due to being at the top of their career ladder. However the elderly, from the graph, take way more than they pay! So working people pay for the elderly full stop!

Ordree

The comparison you are looking at is about inflation and not salaries.

Average salary for 1984 was £7020 per year. These people were on two and a half times that amount.

Even if you look at your figures of £56500.
In today’s money very very few people leave school or even university and walk into a job on £56500 per year and straight away buy a house. There will have been years of working up to that salary.

Years where they would have stayed at home or rented a grotty room so they could save.
The way you have put it is that person spent every penny he earned and then got a 100% mortgage

Revising your opinion about what? I’m not the OP!!! Perhaps the OP just started a thread without doing any research! So what! I’ve done it for her and posted it.

So what! I’ve done it for her and posted it

Of course you have. Now I wonder why......

Do you? You are very sad. I cannot think why? Please explain.

Oh dear.

Please explain

I already did. Now what was it you said about reading the thread....?

(Also familiarise yourself with rhetorical questions)