Younger people should be rewarded for lockdown via affordable housing

[Ordree]

As others have noted, young people (not just those in frontline roles) are making enormous sacrifices to protect others, mostly but not exclusively from much older age groups. They will be bequeathed a damaged planet, a ruined economy and they will have done further damage to their mental health by staying indoors for months on end. They are the ones paying older people's pensions when they won't have anything like the same financial security to look forward to themselves. Yes I know older people paid their elders pensions during their working lives, bit never has there been such an imbalance. As the economy is likely to be ruined short to medium term anyway, would it not be reasonable to start the biggest givernment-funded housebuilding programme ever, allow younger people who have just bought to write off negative equity losses against tax, and essentially redress some of the appalling imbalance between generations and classes?

“Balance the generational unfairness” hahaha, that’s really tickled me.

All my life I’ve had a complete aversion to people who say things aren’t fair. They never get anywhere or have much because they just spend all their time bemoaning others.

Seriously, take a look around and see what the people with this “not fair” attitude have got. Then look at the people who just get up and realise that they have full responsibility for themselves. When you are able to see the difference between those two groups you will then be able to understand that it is already possible for you to buy a house should you wish.

I’m not sure if you’d class us as young

The OP doesn’t know what she classes as young.

Her whole thought process seems to be nothing more than a badly thought out diatribe.

I’m guessing she classes herself as this mysterious “young” and isn’t on the property ladder.

I’m guessing she classes herself as this mysterious “young” and isn’t on the property ladder.

I think OP is the only person set to benefit from her scheme!

Basically, can we all try and get a “modest” 3 bed house over to OP in a nice part of London pls?

There is ample academic economic study saying it’s not as easy to buy a house as it was. Social housing isn’t being bully fast enough. Younger people will have to pay more tax to pay for this if we are not going to have more austerity. (Although I think we will). The government now has unprecedented borrowing. Who do you think will be paying it back? The older generation won’t and can’t. I think the basic argument that younger people will pay more is proved. They will be paying for longer. Something needs to be done to help with this bleak prospect.

I work in a bank and trust me, the ones who are desperate at the moment are middle aged business owners who have spent years building their businesses yet having months of losing their clients and customers during lock down, they will lose everything they've spent years building up. I know the general concensus on mn is to champion the poor, not business owners, but the knock on affect of the multiple businesses which will go under will be felt by everyone. Not one group of people is going to be left unaffected by this. We are all going to suffer, young, middle aged and old.

Typical conversation with my 7 yr old.

Him: “It’s not fair, why’s he go to bed later than me?”
Me “I dunno because his parents let him, why do you get to eat sweets when he doesn’t?”

Him: “It’s not fair, why can’t I have that Toy?”
Me: “It’s not fair on me to have to work so many hours to have to pay for all this stuff you don’t need either is it?”

Him“It’s not fair, how come Daisy gets to go to Disneyland and we only ever go camping?”
Me: “Did you hear Daisys Dad shouting at her the other day and everyday? Is that fair? We can always swop and you could go and live with Daisys Dad and go to Disneyland if you want??”

Him: It’s not fair, I want to play with that toy and Liam always snatches them / plays horribly”
Me: “Was it fair when you did the same to your brother yesterday then?”

Him: “Its not fair, my life is rubbish” (Internets not working or he hasn’t got his own way over something petty)
Me: “Oh really! Is that so!? Did you know that there are children in this World whose parents can’t afford to eat today? Did you know that some children might get sick and die today? Did you see that man outside the shop today that lives in a tent? Etc etc etc until they get the point.

Life is never fair if you look at it through the eyes of a child.

Life your life with gratitude instead of seeking injustice.

You have gained where others have lost.

@BubblesBuddy

You may have missed it yesterday. What are YOU classing as a “younger person”.

Maybe in this guise you’ll answer.

@BubblesBuddy teacher retirement age/draw their pensions for teachers in their 30s is 68.

The older generation won’t and can’t.
I think they can but won't contribute more.

I think one solution is to increase inheritance tax, they way the people paying are DEAD, they don't need the money.

Given that nobody knows how long the current (and subsequent) lockdowns will last, what is the duration of lockdown under existing UK conditions, and the level of economic hardship after which you would consider a significant hardship?

The last part of thst sentence made no sense.
I wouldn't consider lock down for any length of time a significant enough hardship to warrant what you are suggesting.

Life is never fair if you look at it through the eyes of a child

I think that this kind of sums up this thread really.

All my life I’ve had a complete aversion to people who say things aren’t fair. They never get anywhere or have much because they just spend all their time bemoaning others

If you take this approach to its extreme,well is it in your view ok if there were no rental properties anywhere in the country under £5000 per month and the average house purchase cost were £5million? Because if there are no circumstances in which advocating discontent and seeking change are acceptable, then there is never any incentive to change anything at all. Would it be unacceptable people to say it was unacceptable if all healthcare, education and transport were privatised? Would it be ok if the restrictions went on indefinitely and people without savings began to suffer malnutrition and die of starvation? There are circumstances imo where it is absolutely right to say that things as they stand are wrong, and this strategy of applying negative overcoat words like "whine/whinge/moan/complain" does not alter that

I think OP is the only person set to benefit from her scheme!
Firstly you know nothing about my personal situation, secondly even were I to be a beneficiary I would not be the sole one, millions of people currently locked out of any kind of decent accommodation would

Firstly you know nothing about my personal situation

Given you won’t answer the simplest of questions, I think making assumptions about your motives is the only logical conclusion.

I mean if “For the purposes of this thread I’m classing “younger people” as under x years old” is beyond your ability, I’m not sure you’re quite the master of debate you think you are.

Setting the scene of your argument with important facts is the most basic discussion tool.

Ordree - Daft example. Of course I’d be upset if all houses cost 5 million pounds!? But I wouldn’t be saying it’s unfair because they never used to be that much.

You don’t need to grossly over exaggerate to make a point.

You can buy a house if you want to. It might take you years. It might mean you have to move somewhere cheaper, train for a better job, work ridiculous hours but the options are there. The quicker you stop hoping it will fall in your lap the quicker you’ll get what you want.

Get on your knees and prey... and then get on your feet and work!

A plan is what makes things evolve into reality - get one.

In the past there were zero tuition fees and widely available means tested grants. Now the cost is £9000 per year and there are way fewer grants

I have said before that young people need to be realistic
Do they really need a degree to do the job they want to do?
Can they actually afford to take on a huge debt to go to university if only 17% of people actually are able to maintain a job on a relatively low income in order to repay the debt

If children and young people were a little more realistic then maybe they would be in a better financial position.

I will say again the ones I know who didn’t bother trying for university and actually got themselves into a trade or just went out to work are doing far better than those that went to university

It is like they are years ahead in earning power and life in general.

Ultimately life isn’t fair and the sooner people realise it the happier in the long term they will be. Looking at what others have and being jealous isn’t going to get you anywhere

Babies are born with life limiting conditions everyday.
Whist others are born with no problems.

That isn’t fair

Saying everyone staying in for a few weeks isn’t fair on young people so they need to be rewarded for their selfless sacrifice because it isn’t fair is just going to add to their problems if they expect a reward every time life doesn’t go as planned

Ordree

You say you have presented evidence but all you have done is infer that someone on £17500 per year in 1984 was just an ordinary person because they bought a house for twice their income.

Given that is the equivalent to nearer £100,000 per year now then I wonder where all their money went.

I doubt they went straight from school on to such a high salary so must have been working and had the opportunity to save for a few years yet they had nothing saved and despite being on such a high salary they bought essentially a terrace house in Greater London.

I know what we bought in the same year and that was the price of a terrace.

And then said a friend of yours was in dire need despite after paying all bills had £1300 per month disposable income and would need to save the whole amount for 15 years in order to buy one of the £3million properties in the neighbourhood

If that is what you think is evidence and young people think like this the all I can say is no wonder you won’t get anywhere with that attitude

You can buy a house if you want to. It might take you years. It might mean you have to move somewhere cheaper, train for a better job, work ridiculous hours but the options are there. The quicker you stop hoping it will fall in your lap the quicker you’ll get what you want

How is saying that house prices need to come down by a significant amount in order that others can have the opportunity to work extremely hard, get a deposit, pay a mortgage over many years as those in the past have done asking for things to fall into my lap? It is not. It is asking that the same opportunities which were present for previous generations should be present for current and future ones.

Young people in every generation have had it tough. Inter war years was depression, war was death on the frontline, post war was rationing and a ruined economy, 70s was loopy union led strikes, blackouts and UK as sick man of Europe, 80s and 90s recession again, 2008 financial crash and now...
At the same time the young in each generation had unprecedented improvements in opportunity and life chances. People need to read history rather than consume all their news from other people Facebook feeds in order to not make ridiculous assertions about the young today being a special case.

I will say again the ones I know who didn’t bother trying for university and actually got themselves into a trade or just went out to work are doing far better than those that went to university

This is so very true. As a teacher we are encouraged to pack our charges off to university when for many kids there is a much better way path to follow. We desperately need a good apprenticeship scheme and to fully appreciate the value of learning a trade.

*You say you have presented evidence but all you have done is infer that someone on £17500 per year in 1984 was just an ordinary person because they bought a house for twice their income.

Given that is the equivalent to nearer £100,000 per year now then I wonder where all their money went*

Firstly £17,500 is the inflation adjusted equivalent of £56,500 not £100,000 today. Your comment of "I wonder where all their money went"- I don't see the meaning nor relevance of this.

This will just make people think millenials are more of a snowflake than normal. What is it with them wanting everything handed to them on a plate without actually doing the hard work to get it?

It is asking that the same opportunities which were present for previous generations should be present for current and future ones

I’m glad I didn’t have the same opportunities as the generation before mine. It must have been really amazing to be born during a world war, live your childhood through the depression, be a young adult through another world war.

This will just make people think millenials are more of a snowflake than normal. What is it with them wanting everything handed to them on a plate without actually doing the hard work to get it?

It’s pretty clear from this thread that OP is in a minority, or appears to be. I won’t allow that to distort my view of other “young” people

Oh look, another entitlement thread ... clothed in poppycock about redistribution and climate concerns of course, but basically coming down to "I want it, so I should be rewarded by someone else paying"

These discussions always go the same way . The comparisons are very hard. It as nt easier in the past for women to buy a house - you often had o have a man to do the buying. It was only in 1970 the equal pay act even came out.

It was not easier to get to university - it was much harder. Only 15% went in my day. If you go back even further women were not even allowed to go.

We can pluck a few years out of any person of 80s life and find hard and bad times and good times from world wars to evacuation during them with emotional damage to children resulting from 1970s 3 day weeks and power cuts and 60% inflation and no minimum wage etc so all those older people now who never got to buy a house