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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think the George Pell acquittal stinks (warning may be upsetting)

89 replies

viques · 07/04/2020 11:23

George Pell has been acquitted of all charges of child abuse by Australia's highest court.

The appeal court has decided that despite the unanimous decision of the original jury who found the surviving abuse victim a credible reliable and honest witness, the jury (apparently) failed to take into account the "evidence" given by other "witnesses" who ,surprise surprise, were members of the clergy , I believe one was lay, at the church where Pell presided.

Given the abysmal history of the RC church in systematically covering up decades of abuse by its priest, lying, moving them to different parishes, diocese and even countries to avoid answering their accusers, not to mention the cover up that the Australian government perpetrated over the abuse of child migrants (priests again in many cases) I think the verdict sends a message that some abusers are above the law if they have the right connections.

Pell has been given huge consideration by the Australian courts, including an international black out of news on the process of his appeals .

I wonder if such a pussyfoot approach is offered to either victims or indeed accused in other child abuse and rape cases.

The other victim took his own life. His family say they are devastated at this reversal of the verdict.

OP posts:
Liverbird77 · 07/04/2020 12:22

Bastard.

Lionsleepstonight · 07/04/2020 12:41

It stinks. Apparently the jury relied too much on the victim's evidence rather than that of others!

Ginkypig · 07/04/2020 13:11

I hate to use the term at the moment (it is a worldwide systematic devastation though) but we have a pandemic of sexual predators and broken justice systems and apathetic societies regarding csa.

There are thousands of adults who's lives have been destroyed not just by the abuses perpetrated against them but being forced to live in a world and dealing with systems (medical (both physical and mh) education,benefits,workplace,justice, societally and socially and the list goes on!) that constantly and regularly reinforces and re traumatises and them either through ignorance or uninterest or malice

Living having their experiences trivialised or often seemingly purposely misunderstood leaving them unable to be honest about their history to "fit" or own how they feel so as to put it behind them because they end up feeling like they are living "in the matrix" i.e. Their world and worldview is solitary none except themselves see the truth. With no or very rare empathy.

This is just another example of that. I'm not surprised by it I am sadly just familiarly disappointed that yet again the world shows us that children are just toys to be used and the adults who use them are acceptable.

NellGwynsPenguin · 07/04/2020 13:15

I agree @ginkypig.

The victims are brushed aside.

ScottishDiblet · 07/04/2020 13:18

I just don’t understand the verdict of the appeal court. I am devastated. I believe the victims and I believe there are more.

prh47bridge · 07/04/2020 16:16

given by other "witnesses" who ,surprise surprise, were members of the clergy

No they were not. I don't know enough about the Catholic church to say definitively that none of them were clergy but the vast majority of them were not.

The other victim took his own life. His family say they are devastated at this reversal of the verdict.

The other victim specifically denied being a victim before his suicide. Of course, that doesn't rule out the possibility that he was a victim.

I just don’t understand the verdict of the appeal court

Essentially, there were multiple witnesses (people who had been choirboys, adult choir members, altar servers or cathedral officials at the time of the alleged offences) who testified that Pell always spent 10-20 minutes after the service at the door of the cathedral greeting people, that Pell was always accompanied by someone whilst wearing his vestments (as required by canon law) and that the priests' sacristy was a hive of activity following mass. If any one of these three things was true Pell could not have committed the offences of which he was accused. Given the extensive evidence, mostly from people who are not and never have been employed by the church, the court concluded that the chances of all three things being wrong was so low as to cast reasonable doubt on the prosecution case.

Balhammom · 07/04/2020 16:59

One of these threads again...

Unless you have all read every last page of the original evidence, or sat through the entirety of the trial and appeal, how the hell do you feel qualified to criticise the judgement of an incredibly eminent and respected appeal court that did just that?

Feeing you can take a view based on a headline summary and without a full understanding of the relevant evidence is moronic at best.

FishingPaws · 07/04/2020 17:05

I'm not surprised by the verdict, I was stunned that the court of appeal didn't overturn the conviction. Whether or not Cardinal Pell had committed crimes against children while an Archbishop, it wasn't feasible to say guilty beyond a reasonable doubt to the allegations as described.

FishingPaws · 07/04/2020 17:08

The High Court's statement is here
mobile.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-07/george-pell-wins-high-court-appeal-child-sex-abuse-convictions/12048726?pfmredir=sm

With the detailed ruling to follow I would imagine.

prh47bridge · 07/04/2020 17:14

The full judgement can be seen at eresources.hcourt.gov.au/downloadPdf/2020/HCA/12

FlockofGulls · 07/04/2020 17:16

Bastard.

#WeBelieveYou to the victims.

Just as the Lawrence Enquiry found that the metropolitan police force was 'structurally racist' we may well observe that the RC church is 'structurally abusive'

Focus has been on the male victims of male RC priests - but when I lived in Australia in the 1990s - when these claims were just surfacing - evidence suggested that 80% of the victims were female.

It's interesting that the focus is on the male victims - apparently that's a more horrifying crime. I'll just leave that thought there.

FishingPaws · 07/04/2020 17:24

@prh47bridge - thanks for the link

prh47bridge · 07/04/2020 17:25

Only one alleged victim in this particular case.

#WeBelieveYou is a hugely damaging approach. The accused is entitled to a fair trial. The accuser should be listened to respectfully and their allegations investigated without fear of favour. That is not the same as unconditionally believing their allegations. The #WeBelieveYou approach means that it is up to the accused to prove their innocence, which is the reverse of the way we should work. And if there is clear evidence, as in this case, that the allegations are unlikely to be true it is time to stop believing the accuser.

Toddlerteaplease · 07/04/2020 17:37

No, he's absolutely 100% innocent. He's been a victim of the hate for the Catholic Church. There is no way those incidents could have happened. There would have been too many people around and he would have been wearing at least 4 layers of long vestments.

Toddlerteaplease · 07/04/2020 17:39

Cathedral sacristies are a hive of activity. The bishop never gets any space of time alone. As everyone wants to talk to him.

Mistystar99 · 07/04/2020 17:40

He is 78 and due to die soon. I will remember the conviction more than the acquittal as will most.

FishingPaws · 07/04/2020 17:50

Cathedral sacristies are a hive of activity. The bishop never gets any space of time alone. As everyone wants to talk to him.

This was one of several things that made me question his guilt; for a start, how the heck did he escape his master of ceremonies? They stick like glue! Not to mention how a 6ft 5 man managed to sneak away from a large group of people and it not be noticed...something didn't add up!

Toddlerteaplease · 07/04/2020 18:03

Absolutely I'm an altar server in my cathedral. And our previous bishop is now an archbishop. His MC sticks to him like glue. (But doesn't bring him a cup
Of tea, like I used to do!) I don't know how they cope with everyone wanting them!

Dozer · 07/04/2020 18:05

Only a tiny minority of guilty sex offenders are taken to court and jailed. It’s shit.

ocarinan · 07/04/2020 18:06

No, he's absolutely 100% innocent. He's been a victim of the hate for the Catholic Church.

Yeah, because it's not like they have a history of covering up abuse or anything...

MockersxxxxxxxSocialDistancing · 07/04/2020 18:10

Again the point about the burden of proof and the presumption of innocence. In this case you had corroboration from two witnesses, one of whom was dead (from suicide) and unavailable for cross-examination.

Apparently, now that he's been cleared by the ultimate court of appeal, the redacted bits of the official enquiry are going to be untippexed, and the word is they are damning.

Expect a number of civil cases to follow and don't let the bastard get on a plane.

(Did I say, 'Gen On A Play-ane!')

FishingPaws · 07/04/2020 18:11

I don't know how they cope with everyone wanting them!

I suspect they become immensely grateful for Holy hour, the Rosary and the Liturgy of the Hours for reasons beyond their prayer life...

FishingPaws · 07/04/2020 18:16

Yeah, because it's not like they have a history of covering up abuse or anything...

The Catholic Church screwed up in spectacular fashion, the harm caused was incalculable and no-one with any common sense or compassion would say otherwise. The fact remains though that being a member of the Roman Catholic clergy, does not constitute evidence of guilt!

Toddlerteaplease · 07/04/2020 18:32

I suspect they become immensely grateful for Holy hour, the Rosary and the Liturgy of the Hours for reasons beyond their prayer life...

And having good friends who treat them as normal human beings.

TomPinch · 07/04/2020 19:13

Is it true that UK police officers have to say "I believe you" to all complainants of sexual assault?