What is this denial about cannabis ?

[9ofpentangles]

That it is a completely harmless drug? There is so much research on this from reputable sources

It isn’t harmless. I also disagree that you can compare it to alcohol where generally sustained or very excessive drinking over a long period causes the damage.

I smoked a bit in my early 20’s and it left me with a mental illness. My cousin lives in Holland and developed Schizophrenia as a young man. He smoked quite a lot in his early teens. Neither of us smoked very excessively.

In terms of harm to society it is far, FAR less harmful than alcohol. Studies suggesting a link with psychosis are looking at a relationship or correlation, not necessarily cause and effect.

I am a hard working professional and parent, my friends are also hard working professionals and parents. We like to indulge on the odd weekend or sunny day in the garden.

I don't think we're doing anyone any harm.

There will always be some people for whom certain substances for whatever reason don't agree with. I certainly know people who can't drink alcohol without becoming massive twats, some of them are self aware enough to avoid it and some aren't unfortunately.

Does that mean we should make alcohol illegal for everyone because some people have ill effects, or become alcohol dependent? Or should we let trust people to make their own decisions, knowing that some people will make poor ones?

It's likely the same with cannabis, that for the majority of us it's fine in moderation but for a few it's not a good idea.

This graph shows harm to self and others of legal and illegal substances in the UK, I think it's pretty conclusive:

I think people on both extremes of this argument are in denial. Weed isn't harmless and can cause problems, but not to the ridiculous extent that some people say it does, and not to everyone who uses it.

I think both sides of the debate could do with taking the time to really listen to each other. People get over the top about it.

Imstillskanking

Well said.

A lot comes down to the individual user too - someone smoking dawn til dusk Vs occasional user, smoking with tobacco Vs without etc. Not much in life is totally risk free anyway.

Cannabis turns people into tedious wankers

A friend's teenage daughter was sectioned last year after her mental health spiralled our of control whilst using the drug. She ended up a complete paranoid mess, ringing 999 in the middle of the night screaming that she was dying, lost so much weight she was barely recognisable, and, I don't think it was suicidal, but in a under the influenced state tried to jump from an upstairs window, as she was reading from her life thinking she was being chased through the house by demons... I know not everyone suffers with such extreme reactions to it, but for her, it's completely stolen years of her life that she will never get back, she's lost so many friends, and a huge chunk of education through this. She won't touch it again, but there is lasting damage already done. She isn't the same person she was before all this.

Cannabis turns people into tedious wankers so does alcohol, coke etc etc

@byebyebeautiful , yes it does. The same applies to my yawning at people who drink too much too.

I think part of the problem is cannabis that is smoked today is not really true cannabis. Organic cannabis probably have some potential health benefits.
But the stuff people smoke on a daily basis isn’t really cannabis anymore it’s gunk, and smoking gunk that has been mixed with so much rubbish is never going to go well.

JudyGemstone I'm not sure I understand your point. So it's less harmful than both alcohol and tobacco? Why are Ket and Coke down twice..?

The graph is from five years ago and is that regular use.

The concerns are that what is now being seen is the impact of long term issues from drug induced psychosis this isnt always from long term or even a bout of heavy use. Are there underlying mh issues there was a time when it would have been agreed yes this is more than likely the case now with so many young people being treated by mh teams that isn’t the case now

Of course this will not effect everyone who smokes cannabis.

It is though the most concerning issue within mh teams working with young people the numbers are very worrying.

Everything in moderation. A joint on a Saturday night is not going to have a massive effect, just like a drink on a Saturday night, waking and baking daily will harm the mind, like waking and having a drink will harm the mind.
There is so many cannibas options available now that tobacco isn't necessary.
Between shatter, edibles, bongs you can avoid tobacco.
Many normal run of the mill adults smoke pot preferably over alcohol.
When there is a drought it is the adult's on the hunt.
A friends husband makes all his own edibles.

I believe cannibas and MH issues are like the chicken and the egg, what came first.
People with MH issues self medicate with marijuana rather than seeing a GP.

if you want to smoke your brain to mush (it is called 'dope' not 'intelligent') then feel free - but remember that it is illegal. So your saddo cash DIRECTLY funds gang violence, cuckooing of the vulnerable, county lines and knife crime.

if you've no problem with that then take a look in the mirror, where you will see the word 'scum'.

Pomegranateseeds - they're not, it's just cut the beginning of the words off. The first is crack cocaine and then methamphetamine and amphetamine both before ket.

My point is that no-ones saying cannabis harmless and is not sure anyone is is 'denial' but overall it isn't as harmful on either an individual or societal level as other commonly used substances are.

mencken - that's the fault of prohibition though. Make it legal, taxed, quality controlled and a lot of those issues will be at least partly addressed.

imho there is no real danger/risk rationale for cannabis not to be legally available to adults. Given its widespread use it is crazy to leave this trade (and its revenues) in the hands of organised criminal gangs. That's not to say cannabis use is risk-free - it most certainly is not, and those risks can be considerable for a small minority of users

However, I do believe if we had proper Mental Health services for children and young people we would see far fewer of them self-medicating with (relatively) freely available cannabis. Then we might start the work of disentangling cannabis from our culture, and building resilience against the more pernicious 'recreational' drugs.

Blozza - so you are 25 and have had MH problems since you were 10?
And you are still smoking cannabis and drinking?
Have you tried giving up?

@supersop60 obviously she / he has tried giving up. It’s not that easy to give something up that you’ve been using for a while and might be addicted to 🤦🏾‍♂️🤦‍♀️

My point is that no-ones saying cannabis harmless and is not sure anyone is is 'denial' but overall it isn't as harmful on either an individual or societal level as other commonly used substances are

I would disagree with it not being as harmful on both levels. Firstly individual use - the increase in mh issues and cannabis use is the biggest problem within mh services for young people not alcohol, not cocaine or other drugs . Societal level while it may not fuel fights after bars close gang culture the use of cannabis is very high. Young mainly boys selling drugs are not just selling cannabis but they are almost always smoking it. They are not walking about with a beer in their hand. Cannabis, paranoia that may to a level already be there from a fear they have after being groomed, paranoid from smoking and carrying a knife - it’s an all too often lethal mix

I think it’s time that we actually accepted that cannabis is becoming very harmful to our society. For too long it’s been ignored because of the association of the drug making people dopey.

I am not against legalising cannabis but what that will not eradicate the issues connected with cannabis use. The potency of skunk is what many are wanting (I don’t believe that all to do with self medicating) and that will not be sold so there will still be an illegal trade but there will be the option for people to buy from controlled suppliers and taxes paid from this.

*So your saddo cash DIRECTLY funds gang violence, cuckooing of the vulnerable, county lines and knife crime.

If you've no problem with that then take a look in the mirror, where you will see the word 'scum'*

If you're talking about heroin or cocaine then I would agree with this, but its different with marijuana. Some smokers will buy from big farms or get the imported stuff, but lots of people grow their own weed and share it with friends and family. It's very easy to do.

Would legalisation eliminate the black market, though, or would it try to compete with the legal market by flouting the guidelines (eg with more potent, banned products)? And it would be in a position to undercut the legal market, not being subject to taxes.

We often compare cannabis to alcohol but alcohol is a well established legal drug, legal since day dot. An underground market could never threaten to enter the mainstream

I think it’s scary that people use it so casually and have others around them not stopping the use. It’s illegal for a reason.

I’d never date a user of it just as I wouldn’t date a drinker.