Death of 2 Nurses

[shirleybanister]

Am I being unreasonable to think that nurses, especially those with dependent children, should not be risking their lives, caring for Covid 19 patients, without adequate PPE?
I can’t tell you how sad I felt to hear of the deaths of two nurses, both working in acute medical units, both with 3 children.
A weekly round of applause isn’t going to help bereaved families come to terms with their grief, nor is it going to help pay their bills.

I posted a photo of the message you sent me telling me I should put my family first and demand more PPE.

Someone actually said this to you?

Fuck me - do people think we are choosing to be in this position?!

Yes, the op did.

I also think it is the fault of the government - lack of planning, wrong priorities - intent on keeping the economy going.

The clapping is a nice gesture, but not going to save a key workers life. Also, as someone else suggested, many of those clapping would vote against giving extra money to the NHS if they had to contribute.

Someone earlier suggested that all lives should have equal value.

I am a grandmother and can see quite clearly that my grandchildren need their mum more than they need me.
Should she really risk her life trying to save the older generation when she is desperately needed by her children?

I think you ask very leading questions op.

Am I being unreasonable to think that nurses, especially those with dependent children, should not be risking their lives, caring for Covid 19 patients, without adequate PPE?
I can’t tell you how sad I felt to hear of the deaths of two nurses, both working in acute medical units, both with 3 children.

Of course they shouldnt, no one should, even those who have no children.
Your post is spectaculary offensive suggesting people who have children have a higher value on their lives than those who do not.

As a frontline heath worker,. I rather cringed at the clapping 2 weeks ago.
We are doing what we were trained to do, frankly, we need to earn money, just like anybody else. Yes, it's worrying, I would like to be able to distance myself, like other people, however, there is also the advantage of being able to go out to work, see our colleagues, which most others are not able to do.
I was so happy to see that it was "key workers" this time, that were being applauded.
So many people keeping life going, not just NHS workers.
Let's stop the sentimentality and realise that supermarkets workers, teachers, bin men and so many others are also dealing with all this.

I feel the same. I don’t want a clap, I want people to listen to the government.

And, yes, I agree with STRAYCAT

All the deaths from covid are terribly sad, particularly those risking their lives to help others.

That said, is anyone else surprised (but relieved) that healthcare worker deaths appear to be in line with the general population?

There have now been c. 5k deaths in the UK. About 1.1m if the 53m adults in the UK work for the NHS, so all things being equal, I think the current figures are actually reassuring that most, although clearly not all, NHS staff do probably have adequate protection (which also fits with what I’ve been hearing from nhs friends).

so all things being equal, I think the current figures are actually reassuring that most, although clearly not all, NHS staff do probably have adequate protection (which also fits with what I’ve been hearing from nhs friends).

So as long as we don’t die it means we’ve been protected enough?

Until the Government tests all NHS frontline staff and sees how high or low the positive rates are, can we even begin to make judgements as to whether the staff are adequately protected.

@QueenofmyPrinces

Clearly not. However, we can calculate relatively reliable exposure rates from fatalities, given what we know about death rate.

Also worth noting that some of the healthcare workers who contract covid will have been exposed outside of work, in the same way as others.

Obviously, none of this makes the deaths any more acceptable or any less awful.

People who join the armed forces know they're risking life and limb, training to become a health care professional - not so much. Remember the furore when soldiers were sent to the front line without proper protection? How is this any different?

MNHQ have suspended the AS option Sparky which I thought was obvious given i'd asked what the other thread was, particularly as someone said you were awful to the OP and you admitted you were.

Right well I’m very sorry about that. I’m unsure why you expect me to find something an organisation has done “obvious” but ok

Should she really risk her life trying to save the older generation when she is desperately needed by her children?

My sister is a doctor risking her life. She has no children. She is just as important and valued as someone with children. That categorically should not be a factor in any of this. The childless, like the elderly and vulnerable, are not cannon fodder for the masses.

Because i'd AS instead of asking you which thread?

It’s awful. I wrote an online will today to try and make sure my family are protected, particularly as my wedding has now been cancelled so my partner would be left struggling. I’m 34 years old and this shouldn’t be something I’m needing to consider but the higher ups don’t see midwives as ‘frontline’ and so were very short on PPE despite the fact it’s impossible to socially distance in our job! I feel at risk every single day.

Should she really risk her life trying to save the older generation when she is desperately needed by her children?
So what the solution? Only treat people with dependent children? Only nurses without dependent children treat clovid19 patients? Nurses with dependents feet the PPE and the others don't?

Everyone should have adequate provision and as far as we are currently able, everyone should be treated equally

Why is that obvious?

I’ve been asked (upthread, just incase you need to check. I think on the previous page but I’m afraid you might actually have to read some posts to find it) not to bring other threads and posters into this thread so I won’t.

Linked to the clapping comments; I have just seen on BBC news that premier league footballers have been asked to take a 30% drop in pay to help fund the NHS.

They are not happy with this and have pointed out that it will result in a drop in money available to the NHS as they would then be paying £200 m less in taxes.

So, premier league footballers don't employ creative accountants then!

That story was an obvious media plant - they did die but 2 weeks ago. Used to get people not to go out in good weather- look fwd to escalating stories as temperatures rise!

They are not happy with this and have pointed out that it will result in a drop in money available to the NHS as they would then be paying £200 m less in taxes
Nothing stopping them donating the equivalent post tax amount direct is there?

Not sure which 3 of the 4 nurses you're referring to User?

@shirleybanister

Footballers have not been asked to take a drop in pay “to help the nhs”. Footballers are not paid by the nhs.

The drop in pay would help their clubs to stay solvent / pay non-football staff.

Ultimately, if they take a cut and the clubs keep the money, that is less money for the public purse!

The government and its appalling cuts to the NHS have so much blood on their hands. If I was a nurse I would not be setting foot in work unless they were providing me with PPE.
It’s like sending a soldier to war without a gun. Oh wait..

@blueglass

What cuts? NHS budget has increased year on year.

I hate the current government as much as anyone. But I also have no respect for those who make baseless allegations not rooted in evidence.