To be quite concerned about SD and her mum ?

[NotMyProblem202039]

I've name changed for this as it's potentially quite outing...

I've got a feeling this is going to be quite long, so grab a coffee, get comfy..

I've been with DH 6 years, known him 7, married 2 of those. SD is, shared care no issues abd things are pretty ammicable alround and i have a good relationship with SD, just so we get the basics out of the way.

Every since I have known SD her mum has had form for taking her to the Drs for quite literally every cough and sneeze. For the last 2 years DD has been on antibiotics almost continuously, she quite literally finished one course and with in a fortnight she has been to the Drs for another, usually for either an ear or urine infection but occasionally for other things. SD has seen specialists regarding the reoccurances of both and there has been nothing found to explain why she gets them constantly. I'm beginning to think there isn't actually much wrong with SD and her mum is 'forcing' these problems on her?
As I've explained DH has SD roughly 50% of the time, only a handful of times over 6 years can I recall SD getting ill at our house, just usual kid stuff, may be a cold or an upset tummy. She's very rarely had difficulty breathing, ear pain or symptoms relating to the reoccurring infections she seems to be getting. Even when she stays with us for longer periods over the school holidays, but I can guarantee if SD has been with us for more than 7 days, within 48 hours of her going back to her mum's she is ill, at the Drs and back in antibiotics.
Ads mum for the last 12/18 months has requested SD always wears a coat outside, fair enough when it's cold, but also a hat, scarf and gloves regardless of weather. If it's not t shirt weather this is what SD has to wear, if she doesn't it results in hour long phone calls ranting at DH that SD is ill again because she hasn't worn them. At our house currently SD has a cream, bought over the counter, for a skin condition SD apparently has, though DH has never seen it, a spray for her ear, again bought over the counter, that SD has to have at specific intervals, and 2 multi vitamins she has to take, all her mum insists she needs. In the past we've also been given an unlabled jam jar with a yellow tinted clear, oily liquid in, that smelt of onions and slightly like chlorine, that SD was supposed to have a spoonful of morning and evening... No explanation as to what it was, just it would stop her getting ill so often.

Normally I stay out of this, DH doesn't seem overly concerned and presumably a Dr wouldn't prescribe or recommend something unnecessarily, but we've had SD for the last 10 days and I'm starting to question what is going on.
SD arrived fine, no complaints of pain or anything, at tea time after being told to eat her veggies she screwed her face up, bent over in pain clutching her stomach and claimed she was going to be sick and felt really unwell, all a bit concerning so DH suggested laying on the sofa a bit and having a slice of toast later. Of SD went into the living room, when I went back in she was dancing to the theme tune of her face programme she likes. She made a miraculously recovery in time for pudding (as kids do) and never mentioned her stomach again until DH asked her how she was feeling just before bed and she did the same doubled over in pain, claiming to be in agony scenario again. Next morning she seemed fine when she woke up (DH works nights so he isn't around for breakfast) seemed fine and ate her breakfast, I asked her how she was and she said she was ok, until I asked her to take some of her stuff back into her room and she went through the same dramatic claiming to be in pain again and she needed to go lay down, I told her to take her stuff with her as she went and she was fine for the rest of the day, running playing and just being normal.
The second thing that has really got me thinking is a phone call between SD and her mum. As I said SD has been fine all week, she's due to go back to her mum's tomorrow. Whilst on the phone to her mum, her mum asked her how she was and SD put on a really sick voice ( think the voice you used to use calling in sick cause you were hungover when you were 18 sort of voice...) and told her mum she had been really poorly and couldn't stop coughing, which given the current situation Sent her poor mum into a full on panic demanding she was coming to get SD immediately. DH happened to be in the toilet at that particular moment so I called SD out on her blatant lie, I've been home with her everyday and she's not coughed once, and she proceeded to lie further and claim she has been but I mustnt be able to hear her. SD has past form for lying to her mum, saying she doesn't do anything at our house (before lock down we used to go out often, do lot of craft activities SD loves) and also for saying DH leaves her alone in the house (again not true)

If your still with me at this point I guess my AIBU to think something isn't quite right and to be quite concerned about the amount of medication SD is taking that she potentially doesn't need. I know I'm not medically qualified to make that call but it just isn't making sense. SD has moved Drs surgeries at least one before if not twice despite living in the same place, and I'm starting to wonder the reason behind this. If I'm not being unreasonable, how on earth do I go about trying to get SD some help to sort this out, as I've said DH isn't overly concerned, he's of the mindset if she's prescribed it then she needs it but it is an awful lot of antibiotics to be taking and combined with the unusual behaviour it's making me question things a lot.

Sorry that was really long another thing which I might as well add now, SDs mum is convinced SD is autistic, though the Drs won't refer her to look into this further, and SD doesn't display any noticeable autistic traits at our house and it's not something school are concerned about. She a just a normal 10 year old...

Souds like Munchausens syndrome by proxy.

Sounds like

Yes @Esspee that's what I was thinking, and SD has learnt that it gets her what she wants so now plays along/plays up to get her own way. Your DH has to be the person to do something though and it's concerning that he doesn't seem to care!

What @Esspee said, pretty classic. If you brush it off and she carries on without issue, it sounds like her dm has trained her to think she’s sick. So sad.😢

Maunchausens by proxy.
You need to make your husband realise how serious this is.

It does sound very concerning, but I can’t see how she’s managing to get a GP to prescribe antibiotics for ear infections or urine infections without them seeing evidence it’s actually required. They dip urine tests to see if antibiotics are needed and usually then send it to the lab for culture as well, and surely they wouldn’t give them for an ear infection without the ear looking red and inflamed in the ear canal. I don’t know how you would go about getting any help for her though, maybe NSPCC could offer some advice or signpost you somewhere else.

Slightly relieved I'm not imagining this... DH and SDs mum have a pretty amicable relationship, possibly because DH leaves her to her wierd antics and doesn't rock the boat too much, they broke up when SD was one and DH was refused access to his daughter for 6 months and had to go to court so I think there is the underlying fear that this could happen again. Though like I say, all I've known is them be ok with each other regarding arrangements, until it comes to SDs health

Westwasnt, well that's what I initially thought, there would have to be evidence of an actual problem, but they have shared care. SD never shows symptoms here, so DH doesn't take her to the Dr (Though he has been present at appointments with specialists where they were told SD has no underlying reasons to cause these infections)

She could be giving her something to induce water infections.
No idea what because im not sick in the head.
Also by not following the course of antibiotics properly and to the end would mean the girl then needs more again.
I had a friend who did this, kid would be sick as they sometimes are and instead of finishing the course would stop so sickness would come back and kid would end up on steroids or more poorly.
And doctors would just give her stuff, i imagine they were sick of the sight of her and her kids in there on a monthly basis creating a drama and threatening complaints and god knows what else.

Call her out on it in front of mum. Ask why she fakes.

Just a few things.
The yellowy liquid, any chance it's apple cider vinegar? Its recommended by some GPs to boost the immune system. We were recommended it when DD went through a few hellish years of recurrent infections, one after another.

Drs dont tend to just give children, or anyone really antibiotics without being quite certain themselves that it's an infection that needs treatment

The multivitamins and possibly apple cider vinegar are things given to try and avoid kids getting infections when they often get them.

To me, it sounds like SD might revel in the attention of being unwell, and her mums just trying to do the best she can, and shes being twisted around SDs little finger.

If the doctor is prescribing antibiotics so often, I would expect there is some genuine issue. It’s very difficult to fake signs of an ear infection and urine infection.
It sounds like your SD is definitely playing up to her mum, seeking attention and playing on the fact that her mum is clearly very anxious.
To jump straight in and suggest “munchausen” (which is no longer called that) is a huge leap and a very serious psychiatric illness. It’s not possible for any armchair psychiatrists to diagnose based on what you have said.
There is an issue going on though, I agree.

Deffo not apple cider vinegar, it had the consistency of melted coconut oil, but slightly yellow and foul smelling..
I did call SD out on her lying about having a cough whilst she was on the phone to her mum, she tried to make out that I just hadn't heard her. Not sure it's my place to really push the topic further?
SD is a bit of a drama lama, it is a possibility she's having her mum for a fool? At 10 would she really do that deliberately though, Drs trios and medicine is hardly pleasant

It doesnt sound like SDs mum is challenging SD for lying, just rushing her straight to the Drs.

If theres concern there, can DH not contact the Drs and ask for the surgery manager to give him a call back to discuss his DDs medical problems, as it's become apparent that SD is often at the Drs and are there any concerns there, safeguarding or otherwise.
Maybe it's a way to avoid WW3 and have some fears cleared up

Fabricated illness is the correct term so I would suggest you don’t listen to some randoms who do not have knowledge on the internet. They’ve just had an antiquated google. That said I wouldn’t give anything out of a jam jar. You need to talk to your partner. He is the father to raise any concerns you have. I personally don’t think your feelings are foolish but to jump straight to what some posters are saying would also be very very foolish.

It’s cod liver oil, surely

So the infections are real then?

If DH was present at appointment and been told by specialist it happening but they can't find any real reason for the frequency... why are you doubting it?

If you are concerned raise issues with DH and have him talk to her mum.

At 10 I'd not say it was beyond possibility.
To be labelled poorly, possibly have time off school, mum running around after her a little bit more than usual. It's quite possible.

I'd hazard a guess that mum just reacts by booking a Drs appt straight away instead of questioning it like you have.

Whatever that liquid was sounds strange, but maybe DH can say, I'm wanting to get stuff ordered in advance, you know what availability is like with Covid19.
I'm going to order DD some vitamins, what's that liquid you sent her with and where can I get it?..shall i double order so you've got some for DD?

Then he knows what it is.

Have you seen Sd with these antibiotics or is her mum just saying she needs them? My LG gets ill a lot I take her docs a lot an 9 times out of 10 come away with antibiotics chest Infection ear throat pneumonia twice. the lot. had blood test done no reasons showing why she's always ill so it does happen. But if you're not seeing the actual antibiotics from the doctor given its 50/50 care then I would think something odd most courses last at least 5 days depending what the illness is can be longer.

Quarentini, when DH went to the specialist appointments, the was no infection at the time and could find no reason as to why she would get them so often and so SD was discharged from his care and just goes to the regular Drs now. DH doesn't go to these appointments, SDs mum always gets in touch after the appointment to say SD has been ill and now she's on such and such medication. If he knew she was ill her attend the appointment but he never finds out till after.
Not cod liver oil either, it's like nothing I've ever come across. SDs mum is not originally from Britain, it's from her home country, that's the most information DH has managed to get out of her about it
I have mentioned it to DH a few times over the years, he doesn't seem overly concerned but after the pretending to be ill on the phone to her mum incident I'm not sure i can just pretend it's not my business any more

Has epilepsy ever been a concern??

No, epilepsy has never been a concern?

Maunchausens by proxy.
My cousins were always taking antibiotics, their second/adult teeth came through black and they had those fixed ASAP. Even now in their 30s they are still sick...

This sounds like FII to me. I know someone who has followed the exact same pattern, almost to the letter - child always ill in ways that others can't see or prove, moving GPs and self referring to different agencies or support groups once she gets short shrift from one, child starting to use it as a method of manipulation.

What reminded me of her was your thing about your SD being told to wear gloves and a hat etc all the time outside - the woman I know now makes her kid wear ear defenders a lot of the time because apparently they can't stand loud noises, but was next to a load of screaming kids and popping balloons at a party and was fine, laughing and joking and running about - UNTIL the mum suddenly realised we'd noticed the child wasn't wearing them and went 'oh no poor baby!!!!' and then the kid was all 'oh it hurts, I don't like the noise'. Symptoms shift and new diagnoses are sought and it all happens when the child isn't around other people.

Beware though - FII is incredibly difficult to prove and therefore hard to stop.