To be quite concerned about SD and her mum ?

[NotMyProblem202039]

I've name changed for this as it's potentially quite outing...

I've got a feeling this is going to be quite long, so grab a coffee, get comfy..

I've been with DH 6 years, known him 7, married 2 of those. SD is, shared care no issues abd things are pretty ammicable alround and i have a good relationship with SD, just so we get the basics out of the way.

Every since I have known SD her mum has had form for taking her to the Drs for quite literally every cough and sneeze. For the last 2 years DD has been on antibiotics almost continuously, she quite literally finished one course and with in a fortnight she has been to the Drs for another, usually for either an ear or urine infection but occasionally for other things. SD has seen specialists regarding the reoccurances of both and there has been nothing found to explain why she gets them constantly. I'm beginning to think there isn't actually much wrong with SD and her mum is 'forcing' these problems on her?
As I've explained DH has SD roughly 50% of the time, only a handful of times over 6 years can I recall SD getting ill at our house, just usual kid stuff, may be a cold or an upset tummy. She's very rarely had difficulty breathing, ear pain or symptoms relating to the reoccurring infections she seems to be getting. Even when she stays with us for longer periods over the school holidays, but I can guarantee if SD has been with us for more than 7 days, within 48 hours of her going back to her mum's she is ill, at the Drs and back in antibiotics.
Ads mum for the last 12/18 months has requested SD always wears a coat outside, fair enough when it's cold, but also a hat, scarf and gloves regardless of weather. If it's not t shirt weather this is what SD has to wear, if she doesn't it results in hour long phone calls ranting at DH that SD is ill again because she hasn't worn them. At our house currently SD has a cream, bought over the counter, for a skin condition SD apparently has, though DH has never seen it, a spray for her ear, again bought over the counter, that SD has to have at specific intervals, and 2 multi vitamins she has to take, all her mum insists she needs. In the past we've also been given an unlabled jam jar with a yellow tinted clear, oily liquid in, that smelt of onions and slightly like chlorine, that SD was supposed to have a spoonful of morning and evening... No explanation as to what it was, just it would stop her getting ill so often.

Normally I stay out of this, DH doesn't seem overly concerned and presumably a Dr wouldn't prescribe or recommend something unnecessarily, but we've had SD for the last 10 days and I'm starting to question what is going on.
SD arrived fine, no complaints of pain or anything, at tea time after being told to eat her veggies she screwed her face up, bent over in pain clutching her stomach and claimed she was going to be sick and felt really unwell, all a bit concerning so DH suggested laying on the sofa a bit and having a slice of toast later. Of SD went into the living room, when I went back in she was dancing to the theme tune of her face programme she likes. She made a miraculously recovery in time for pudding (as kids do) and never mentioned her stomach again until DH asked her how she was feeling just before bed and she did the same doubled over in pain, claiming to be in agony scenario again. Next morning she seemed fine when she woke up (DH works nights so he isn't around for breakfast) seemed fine and ate her breakfast, I asked her how she was and she said she was ok, until I asked her to take some of her stuff back into her room and she went through the same dramatic claiming to be in pain again and she needed to go lay down, I told her to take her stuff with her as she went and she was fine for the rest of the day, running playing and just being normal.
The second thing that has really got me thinking is a phone call between SD and her mum. As I said SD has been fine all week, she's due to go back to her mum's tomorrow. Whilst on the phone to her mum, her mum asked her how she was and SD put on a really sick voice ( think the voice you used to use calling in sick cause you were hungover when you were 18 sort of voice...) and told her mum she had been really poorly and couldn't stop coughing, which given the current situation Sent her poor mum into a full on panic demanding she was coming to get SD immediately. DH happened to be in the toilet at that particular moment so I called SD out on her blatant lie, I've been home with her everyday and she's not coughed once, and she proceeded to lie further and claim she has been but I mustnt be able to hear her. SD has past form for lying to her mum, saying she doesn't do anything at our house (before lock down we used to go out often, do lot of craft activities SD loves) and also for saying DH leaves her alone in the house (again not true)

If your still with me at this point I guess my AIBU to think something isn't quite right and to be quite concerned about the amount of medication SD is taking that she potentially doesn't need. I know I'm not medically qualified to make that call but it just isn't making sense. SD has moved Drs surgeries at least one before if not twice despite living in the same place, and I'm starting to wonder the reason behind this. If I'm not being unreasonable, how on earth do I go about trying to get SD some help to sort this out, as I've said DH isn't overly concerned, he's of the mindset if she's prescribed it then she needs it but it is an awful lot of antibiotics to be taking and combined with the unusual behaviour it's making me question things a lot.

This reminds me of what I was like as a child. As soon as there was something (normally school-related) that I didn't want to do I told my mother I didn't feel well, and as she is a complete hypochondriac she always allowed me to stay home. She almost always took me to the doctor...and incredibly, the doctor always diagnosed me with something (normally 'non-specific' virus), which amazed me as I knew I wasn't actually ill. It meant I missed a lot of school...and also lost all faith in doctors!

It sounds like something like that is going on; like pp have said, the child has worked out how to use the situation for her own advantage...

Worth considering some other possibilities (I’m not saying mum isn’t making this up, its possible and a very worrying idea).

1. mum could just be very anxious, this anxiety then makes SD anxious. Both of them genuinely think she is ill.

2. SD does get ill more with mum due to some other external variable - washing powder, pollution, diet etc

3. She masks problems at your house and tells her mum more honestly. I did this as a child for fear of losing the nrp. I was ridiculously good at hiding my pain. Then would collapse in tears with my mum.

Sounds concerning but I would just say that both my dcs have been on long term daily antibiotics - one for ear infections and one for urine infections. Two years each. Nightmare. Both were prescribed by the relevant consultant (not GP). My son was on them till he could have grommets and my daughter would have been on them longer but she seems to have grown out of the UTIs for now. In severe cases this is what happens but it’s not something the GP would instigate afaik.

Is there a way for your DH to have a conversation with the GP about this? Just to get the back story on the infections and possibly if relevant raise the issue of health anxiety or worse?

Ear infections are hard to fake to a doctor enough to get antibiotics.
And there can be no underlying cause.
Ds had constant ear infections from 10 weeks old until about 7yo, unless he had grommets in. He's only been declared that he seems to be over it last year when he was 12yo. He got so used to the pain he tended not to tell people, and would wait to tell me at home if he was with other people. I got very good at spotting when one was coming up from little things he did. No one else, even dh, woukd pick it up, except his year R teacher who also got very good at predicting one.
There was no reason why he should get ear infections, it just happens to some children.
He also tends to need antibiotics to clear up the ear infections. Our GP who is very hard to get antibiotics from knows that he needs them, or his ear drum perforated. We've tried avoiding them several times and it just means longer in pain, ear drum perforated and then antibiotics anyway. Ear drops don't work either on him.

I was really hoping you weren’t going to mention autism. The horrible smelling stuff she gave you to give her, could it have bleach in it? There is a quack American “cure” for autism that is essentially poisoning children with small quantities of bleach. I really hope that’s not what it is, but I would be concerned.

Maunchausens by proxy

Jeez Louise, given the ease at which some posters can diagnose complex disorders just by reading a thread, the NHS must look to MN as an untapped source of medical expertise.

To me, it sounds like a combination of a very anxious mum and a little girl for whatever reason, plays up to it as she likes the attention. And a combination of frequent real illnesses leading to situations that your step daughter likes (eg extra treats or attention to cheer her up) so she starts to invent others.

I dont think it is munchausen (sp) as she is prescribed antibiotics, most GPs do a dip test then send off the sample to a lab. F it was munchsusens she would be having lots of illnesses that would be hard to prove or investigate like headaches or back ache. Likewise most GPs will check the ear before prescribing antibiotics for an ear infection. Some kids are unfortunately prone to ear and urine infections and sending them for further tests to check for underlying conditions is completely standard, my daughter has had a run of urine infections and we were told after 3 in 6 months they get referred to check there is no underlying reason. I think it's also possible to get into a cycle of being run down by antibiotics and picking up other infections. So this part of it is probably genuine. The mum probably feels a sense of losing control if she cant prevent her getting infections and is therefore enforcing that and gloves rules etc which is over the top.

Having said that, the girl has obviously worked out that when she is ill, she gets let off with not having to do jobs and other things she doesnt want to do, and that she gets more attention from her mum. Her mum isnt helping this by constantly asking her if she is ok.

After all that, I dont know what the answer is given she doesnt live with you all the time. You could call the mum and say she was complaining about a sore stomach when asked to eat veg and then miraculously improves when there is something she wants to do and say you've been noticing this a lot.

And you and your husband can talk to your step daughter about her behaviour and make it clear that if she is saying she is ill when she isnt, she will be punished for lying, and next time she is doubled up with pain she will be sent to bed with no tv or anything as she is clearly too ill to watch tv or anything,

I think if you call the mum out directly for encouraging her daughters behaviour, it will backfire, so tread carefully

I think sd is looking for attention

My biggest take out was that her father needs to get his head out of his arse.

I wouldn’t internet armchair diagnose Munchausen’s by Proxy. I’m going to diagnose health anxiety from the mother, resulting in child learning what gets attention, and bizarre passivity from her father.

Nice

What's wrong with OP saying her SD is quite dramatic?

One of my step kids is very dramatic about things. Doesn't mean I don't love him. It's true.

@NotMyProblem202039 could DH do an access request/FOI thing (sorry I can’t remember the real name) with SD’s medical notes? It’s easy to do now and free - I got some specific referral letters printed off from my DS’ notes when I needed evidence for something but you don’t even need to say why you want it. You just write on the form what info you need printed - maybe he could ask for anything related to antibiotics or something? Hopefully if you have shared care he has just as much right to request this and her mum wouldn’t need to be informed. It may just shed some light on whether she actually is getting the ABs from there (she could be making it up or ordering something online) and if so, what evidence they’re seeing.

It’s true you can get ABs over the phone. I have a couple of times in the past when I had recurrent chest infections and was too weak to get to the surgery. And under the current circumstances I’d be concerned that it’s even easier, IF she is exaggerating. I got DS some ABs this week with a quick phone call - I had taken photos of his skin in case I should email it but they didn’t ask, the description was enough and it would be easy to fake that. They are obviously not wanting to see patients where it can be avoided

I see children very similar at work. It's remarkable how many agonising, fall to floor and wailing stomach pains occur at the end of break when there's double maths and they haven't done their homework.

Or when, after a genuine illness where hardworking Mum took unpaid leave for six weeks, the slightest twinge of constipation/normal digestive transit/tiredness/only having a packet of crisps because they got up late leads to 'my tummy hurts/I've got a headache/I feel sick/I want to go home' because it's so nice having Mum at home.

With older children, you can track their hated lessons by the register, as those are the days when they have 'music lessons' (no, they don't), illness during the day (with no temperature, inconsistent symptoms and a tendency to just cry at you if you question them), 'panic attacks in the toilet' (well, they certainly weren't in there when the cleaner was there twenty minutes ago, unless they did a Spiderman and sat on the ceiling) or they purely coincidentally have illnesses every Thursday morning until the carousel classes change and then they have them Tuesday afternoons instead.

And yes, there are absolutely genuine children who have a yet to be diagnosed condition. The difference is that their symptoms stop them from doing things that they want to do.

It sounds as though Mum is trying to help her daughter, by believing her and asking for medical help, but your SD is changing tactics in response because she likes things how they are.

The yellow liquid could be an onion and garlic honey syrup. It's a traditional remedy to ward off infection.
It sounds like your step daughter could be doing what all kids do and faking illness to get out of things they don't like. Her mum is maybe over anxious and panics about her dd's health, hence all the running to the doctor. I'm not sure about the antibiotics. It's almost impossible to get them here, because docs are, quite rightly, very strict about giving them out.

I do think, after reading everyone's thoughts, the most likely scenario is SD has worked out if she's poorly she gets extra attention. I know after Drs visits when she was younger she uses to get a treat, a toy or what ever to cheer her up, though I don't know if this is still the case.
I hadn't considered the antibiotics being bought online, there is a rule, from SDs mum, the medication MUST remain in its box, which didnt seem that odd unless she's possibly reusing the box which has the label on with SDs name?
I can't imagine SDs mum deliberately making SD ill, I honestly don't think she would do anything to harm her at all so I don't think she's making her sick. Having said that when SD has been with us she has a bottle, it has to be filled in the morning and she must drink all the water through the day to help her urine infections. Except the bottle isn't very big, I measured how much water it held and SD would have to drink nearly 3 bottles through the day to drink the upper amount of the recommended amount of fluid per day for her age, so by only drinking one she isn't even drink half the recommended amount which I guess could potentially aggravate the problem. I used to get a lot of urinine and kidney infections (and still do) so I do feel this is one area I'm not totally clueless In. SD has never complained of pain going to the loo or anything, I've asked in a 'everything alright?' Kinda way after she's been and everything is fine, nor has she mentioned any back pain.
I had considered her masking the pain, but as I've said SD is quite dramatic. She's the sort who if she knocks her elbow she starts limping sort of dramatic and she doesn't cope well if she trips up or anything so I'm not sure she'd be able to keep it up, especially when she's hear for the longer periods ? She's also fine at school, but has twice been sent home for complaining of being unwell with a stomach ache, so it's not like she's scared to tell her teacher if somethings wrong. She does really well and enjoys going, no issues other than typical 10 year old drama every now and again, loads of friends and she's otherwise pretty happy.
I mentioned it to DH this morning and to sum up his response; yes he has noticed, yes he is concerned but not so much that he will do anything about it and I'm not to give it anymore thought, he'll deal with it if and when he needs to. I'm not sure I'm ok with that response actually, if something isn't right surely it needs investigating now before it seriously impacts SD. From the attention seeking perspective, if that's the case i want it nipping in the bud now as I don't want DD to pick up on that sort of behaviour being ok.
I don't want to say SDs mum's nationality but I do think from what has been mentioned there is deffinatley a different culture and way of doing things when your child is sick at play, which helps explain some of the excess clothing.

Mm

In relation to medications you can check expiry dates and also dates on the prescription label. May give an indication about how often or if they are prescribed or have been bought online.

It could be the mum or daughter, or even both. But I'd say from what you've said that she's probably not having as many infections as being claimed.

Lots of children have has serious medical procedures done without reason, never mind antibiotics. So just because a doctor is giving antibiotics doesn't mean they actually need it. The moving doctors is strange too, perhaps as one doctor starts getting suspicion or less willing to prescribe they move to another. Cant remember the name of the girl who killed her mum for making her ill but the moving doctors was a thing with her. Move toxa new doctors and fabricate what the old doctor diagnosed.

I mentioned it to DH this morning and to sum up his response; yes he has noticed, yes he is concerned but not so much that he will do anything about it and I'm not to give it anymore thought, he'll deal with it if and when he needs to.

A polite way of saying he has no plans of doing anything and he doesn’t want you to pressure him to anything either, it’s best you STFU.

Funny how he’s happy to leave the practical side of parenting his daughter to you but when he’s asked to step up, he can’t be arsed,

Agent I completely agree, I actually quite upset at DHs way of dealing with this.
I've generally done a little more of the practical side of parenting for our own DD and probably done more than I ought for for SD, but DH works quite long and unsociable hours so I've always been ok with it, I only work part time. But up until now he always stepped up if needed, although now I think of it he's always been a bit passive when it comes to SD and her mum generally calls the shots when it comes to who has her when through holidays etc and DH just goes with it regardless of whether it suits us ( He might have taken holiday, then SDs mum might rearrange dates, but rather than say something he'll just go with it) but as it's not really my business I leave him to it. But this feels a bit different, it is my business if there is something wrong with SD and I'm not sure i can just keep my nose out.
I'm thinking of maybe calling school next week and having a chat with them, I'm not expecting they'll discuss much with me but hopefully they'll listen to my concerns and if they have noticed anything as Well but just needed that bit extra evidence/information, they they escalate it to the relevant people to check everything is well.

The keeping medicine is the box is a very sensible move on SD's Mum's part. And it would clearly show the date of dispensing on the label.

Getting a child who doesn't like water to drink enough is difficult. I hated the stuff and even now, I don't like it unless it's filtered and ice cold - but I like some herbal teas and make infusions. It seems to me that DP makes a drink every five minutes, but in reality, he's probably got a realistic level of fluid intake compared to me.

If I don't make a concerted effort to drink everything he brings me or, when I'm at work, set myself the task of drinking a (small) glass of water from the cooler every time I walk past it, I get dehydrated and start feeling ill very quickly.

Could it be worth finding other ways to get her to drink more? Like floating strawberries in a second bottle? Children's infusion teabags? Adding different drinks to the day or making sure that meals have a higher water content (such as having a soup or sauce with them)?

Even low level dehydration can make you feel really rough for no apparent reason.