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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To cancel day trip to London (C/O)

67 replies

CheesecakeAddict · 03/04/2020 13:23

I'm trying to figure out what on earth I should do for the best here. Dd is 2 y/o. Exh lives in London and we live way up in the north. We have a court order that I have to take her down once per month and he picks her up from a central London station. Exh still wants me to take her down even though that will mean exposing dd to the train, tube, another train. On a selfish level, it also means I have to spend 7 hours hanging about London with everything closed and I'm asthmatic so I don't want to expose myself either.

I don't want to expose her (she already has a heart condition), but I know he will take legal action if I break the court order and I'm getting mixed messages from cafcass. Their argument is that I got the family car so technically could do a 6 hour drive each way to enable contact 🙄. I really don't know what to do. Staying at his house is also not an option, due to previous DV.

OP posts:
Quarantimespringclean · 03/04/2020 13:51

I agree with asking what steps he will be taking to visit her whilst it is unsafe for her to travel. Emphasise how keen you are that he visits. All by Email /text so there is a record of how helpful and proactive you are being.

HannahStern · 03/04/2020 13:52

Please, stay at home.

FenellaVelour · 03/04/2020 13:54

While the guidelines say a child is able to go, it doesn’t say “must go”. It calls on parents to be sensible and carry out their own risk assessment. It would seem to me that the sensible thing here would be not to go, and to offer FaceTime or similar instead.

ilovedjerrymore · 03/04/2020 13:55

Don’t go!
Just because you have a car doesn’t mean you can afford the petrol for the journey there and back.!
I would email him why your daughter will not be going then ignore him if he turns nasty until this is over! No decent father would want their child to travel at the moment. He would be laughed at if it went to court!

GabsAlot · 03/04/2020 13:56

Tell hm to take it to court they wont make you-how adare he ask you to do this in these circumstances

Needmoresleep · 03/04/2020 13:56

If you find it difficult to stand up to him, it’s time for a white lie. Say you and your DD seem to have minor temperatures, and you have a splitting headache, so in line with government guidelines you are staying indoors for two weeks. Though happy to Zoom or Skype.

STAYTHEFUCKHOME · 03/04/2020 13:56

^ Where parents do not agree to vary the arrangements set out in a CAO, but one parent is sufficiently concerned that complying with the CAO arrangements would be against current PHE/PHW advice, then that parent may exercise their parental responsibility and vary the arrangement to one that they consider to be safe. If, after the event, the actions of a parent acting on their own in this way are questioned by the other parent in the Family Court, the court is likely to look to see whether each parent acted reasonably and sensibly in the light of the official advice and the Stay at Home Rules in place at that time, together with any specific evidence relating to the child or family.
Where, either as a result of parental agreement or as a result of one parent on their own varying the arrangements, a child does not get to spend time with the other parent as set down in the CAO, the courts will expect alternative arrangements to be made to establish and maintain regular contact between the child and the other parent within the Stay at Home Rules, for example remotely – by Face-Time, WhatsApp Face-Time, Skype, Zoom or other video connection or, if that is not possible, by telephone.^

alloutoffucks · 03/04/2020 13:58

We don't know if it would be laughed at if it went to court. Maybe OP has a long history of obstructing contact? I am not suggesting you have OP, but it is dangerous to give legal advice when you don't know the full situation.

ellanwood · 03/04/2020 13:58

White lie. Tell him you have a cough and need to self isolate.

MsTSwift · 03/04/2020 13:58

What’s wrong with him? He is not a decent father to put his selfish wish to see her over her well being. Outrageous. Not a court in the land would insist you did this they’re shut anyway

Tarttlet · 03/04/2020 13:59

OP, Rights of Women have some good information about this kind of situation - rightsofwomen.org.uk/get-information/family-law/coronavirus-and-child-contact-arrangements/

FurryAndFluffy · 03/04/2020 13:59

That’s unusual that you have to take your daughter all the way to him. Is it because you moved away? I know it’s not relevant to the safety issue but maybe from how I would approach it. Is it possible for you to pay for him to come up to see your daughter? If I were him I’d be worried about how long this might go on for. He doesn’t see her often as it is so each visit is important.

I’m not sure FaceTime would work that well.

AgeLikeWine · 03/04/2020 14:06

There is obviously a major back story here to explain why on earth a father would have to take out a court order to enforce contact with his own daughter.....

However, in the current exceptional circumstances travelling to London is obviously against government social distancing guidelines and he will just have to accept this.

Mummyoflittledragon · 03/04/2020 14:08

That rights of women site is ace... Driving 6 hours is ridiculous!

LangSpartacusCleg · 03/04/2020 14:11

Dear Ex,

As the country is in lockdown and DD and I are considered vulnerable, it is too dangerous for us to travel by train and tube and spend 7 hours killing time in London before repeating the journey home at this point in time. We both need to be isolating and distancing as much as possible but I understand your need to spend time with her too.

For our safety, can we arrange contact differently this time? Perhaps a long Skype session with you playing a board game such as Monopoly (just reread your post - she is too young for that but maybe something else) or I could help you set up a treasure hunt for her around the house?

I’m happy to facilitate online contact for you during the crisis so please let me know if there is anything you want me to arrange in advance and we look forward to seeing you in person when this is all over.

Cheesecake

(This makes you seem like a concerned parent, willing to cooperate, and it also provides a reasonable paper trail if it come up in court)

Nquartz · 03/04/2020 14:11

I wouldn't let him come to see you either though because he might infect you both.

As suggested above, offer regular video calls instead.

CanadaPolice · 03/04/2020 14:12

No. He shouldn't be in a railway station.
A woman was arrested for loitering in a station this week.

Cherrysoup · 03/04/2020 14:18

He clearly couldn’t give a fuck about your dd’s welfare if he’s asking this. It definitely isn’t ‘essential’ travel.

CanadaPolice · 03/04/2020 14:21

In any case, there will be nowhere for you to kill time in London without the police asking you why you are out.

ginnybag · 03/04/2020 14:22

Write him an email, outlining all your reasons for 'no' based on DD's safety:

Dear Ex,

I am afraid that, in this occasion it is not possible for me to transport DD to see you, as we have no way to safely make the journey.

  1. Public transport - DD has a heart condition, which makes exposing her to multiple types of public transport for prolonged periods, esp the tube system, which is known to be currently crowded due to the reduced service and likely to be full of keyworkers most likely to be infectious, unwise.
  1. Driving - it is patently unsafe for me to drive six hours each way in one day, and would be very stressful for DD as well. I would be placing her in a vehicle with a tired and unsafe driver and, as hotels are closed and I cannot stay with you due to government instructions not to mix households at this time, it is not possible to complete this overnight.

It is therefore not possible to achieve this in way which is in DD's best interests. I am happy to facilitate on-line contact or to listen to any other reasonable suggestions you may have.

Out of interest, OP, have you checked the journey is even possible?

AprilFloundering · 03/04/2020 14:24

If he genuinely wants to see her and spend the day with her, he would get himself on the train and come and see her where she is under the circumstances ... but even that would be foolish, as he would have exposed his Dd with a heart condition to every germ he came into contact with on the way up.

I'd tell him you'll see him in court. And document the crap out of today, what it would require, and his unwillingness to come to you under the circumstances.

MiniatureRed · 03/04/2020 14:25

Why does he not have to travel? How frustrating.

Ask him to compromise and meet you halfway.

Original poster
CheesecakeAddict · 03/04/2020 14:25

Thank you so much for the advice and the links. Definitely no travel on Sunday then and I'll get it in writing too.

@ElloElloVera that really put my mind to rest.

@agelikewine yeah massive backstory. It was a pretty brutal split and he tried to get so many orders against me. The reason I take her down was because that was only way the courts would agree to lift my prohibitive steps order forcing us to remain homeless in London rather than move to my parents (it's actually all on MN because I got quite a lot of support trying to access services) . It destroyed me. That's why I am terrified about the consequences.

OP posts:
welshladywhois40 · 03/04/2020 14:26

Don't go. My partners daughter is on the other side of the country. Her mum is on immune suppressing medication. They live rurally. We are close to London. He used to drive hours eow to see her.

He hasn't seen her now for nearly a month to keep her whole family safe.

He is missing her terribly but there is more at stake.

carriemathisonshandbag · 03/04/2020 14:27

I have an idential travel distance and arrangment with my ex, who also lives in London. At the beginning of lockdown he was threatening me with all sorts, but fortunately he has seen sense.

I totally agree with everyone else on here. You would never forgive yourself you or your DC caught it while doing this journey. These ae exceptional circumstances and no reasonable parent should expect the other to undertake this.

As an aside, on the radio the other day someone made a valid point about how the rules on non essential journeys are also to prevent accidents, which might take up NHS resources.