To hope this completely changes the way society works? (working from home/non-essential travel)

[MoonBabysMagicalKalimba]

Disclaimer: Obviously this does not apply to those professions for which WFH will never be an option such as healthcare, retail, tourism & hospitality, and teaching/childcare

In the last few weeks, hundreds of organisations have had to devise and implement full WFH procedures. Many of these organisations had previously told employees that WFH was not possible or permissible, yet when the need arises, it clearly is.

If companies were to continue to allow this going forward, when this mess is all over, this could drastically change how we all work. No more ridiculous traffic in the mornings and evenings, no more hundreds and thousands of Londoners cramming themselves onto tubes and trains from 7-9am and 4-6pm simply to sit in offices all day. We are already seeing a huge reduction in pollution. The majority of the commuter traffic would be taken up by those aforementioned professions who physically need to go in to work, many of which work shifts anyway so we wouldn’t have these bottlenecks of ridiculous congestion morning and evening.

We also need to take a good, hard look at the hundreds of planes that fly around the world every week, of which probably a very decent proportion of passengers are business men and women travelling to other countries for meetings, interviews and conferences that they could most likely very easily attend via video link. Obviously this will not be the case for all business trips and some will be crucial to attend in person, but I think we could lose a decent chunk of them.

These changes would also drastically improve workers mental health and work/home life balance, I’m already seeing it with some colleagues who by losing their daily commute are having an extra 1-2 hours in bed and feeling the benefits to their health. There’d be more time to exercise, and catch up on home chores and admin during lunch breaks. This would also enable parents to drop off/pick their children up from school more often. Obviously this would be when things are more “normal” and children are back in nursery/school and not at home!

I’m not saying everyone with a desk/office job should WFH full time, as there will be those who prefer to go into the office. But a balance could definitely be met. Some could WFH FT, some go into the office FT, and the majority do a combination of both on a rota system. Even these small changes could have a huge impact on the environment and our health.

If this shit situation has taught us anything, it’s that there is absolutely no need for thousands of office workers to travel to and from work, creating or contributing to pollution and congestion, simply to sit at desks behind a screen all day.

Thoughts?

Yes Madein1995, I agree totally. I like the routine of going out to work. I really like it. I hadn't worked for two years when I got my current job and I found I loved the routine of going out to work again.
Going to teh office gets me in the right frame of mind too.

but what you aren't considering is the businesses and employers that rely on the commuter and working public. How do they adapt?

There would still be a need for transport, for those workers whose jobs require a presence and to account for the 50/50 WFH/WFO situation I am proposing. There would still need to be a good transport presence, perhaps just slightly reduced by a train/bus or two per hour. However the journeys themselves would be far more pleasant and hygienic: no more being forced onto tube trains like cattle with strangers breathing all over you, someone’s crotch digging into your back, someone’s armpit in your face and others breathing only 2cm away from you. It would make the experience for those who still need to commute infinitely more bearable and pleasant.

My mental health has been fucked by this and it's only been a week. I need a reason to get up and out and into the world. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

however this also may mean a lot of companies realising they don't need an office in the UK at all, and their work could be off shored to someone much cheaper elsewhere in the world.

It would simply be an option, and most companies could still necessitate an office presence. If those who would much prefer to work in the office full time for mental health reasons could still do so, those who would prefer to WFH full time do so, and the rest operate on a shift system WFH certain days of the week and WFO on the others, this would reduce congestion and footfall by 50%! There is no reason why everybody couldn’t benefit and be happy, and there would still be a presence in the office for visitors and essential meetings.

Sorry I disagree. I’m an employer and productivity has plummeted. 2 of my staff are women in their early 20s and they don’t have children. Their productivity has still fallen off a cliff.

In this situation, managers would need to assess each individual’s productivity at home and remove WFH rights for those who abuse it. The majority shouldn’t be punished for the bad behaviour of the minority.

That's a good point Beetroot. I actually do think there is value in learning how to get along with a variety of people, including ones you don't like. And you only really get that from work.
I realised this when I had a friend who was independently wealthy.
Several times she tried to get start studying with a placement or volunteering, but she always quit when she didn't get along with someone. She had no social resilience and was constantly in conflict or angry with others in her life. I did wonder if having to have a job would have forced her to learn those 'getting along' with others and tolerance skills and helped her to be a happier person.

' If those who would much prefer to work in the office full time for mental health reasons could still do so, '

WFH reduces costs massively for employers. No need for office space. Internet, heating costs passed onto employees. No need for subsidised canteens (where they still exist, some very large employers based out of town still have them).

Why would they keep an office on, just to help the mental health of some staff? Things don't work like that.

I do think pay would fall, for a lot of people it would be appealing and not necessarily as location specific. You probably wouldn't get things like London weighting either. I do hope really that key worker jobs have pay rises, and jobs which can be done from home level out.

I think you are being quite naive about the realities of what you propose, in terms of costs, efficiencies, productivity, etc. If it really was so simple, profit making/commercial companies would have leapt on it years ago (at least as soon as reliable fast broadband was a thing)?

We may well get to your vision over time (years), but I don't think it will be as easy or as immediate post-corona as you are suggesting.

I don't like working from home full time at all but I would like it 1-2 times a weel. I work 4 days anyway so 2 times a week would be 50:50 home to office which would be good. Or even 30:70. I wouldnt like to always work from home though

I think that would be sad though, we will end up being so insular no one ever really interacts with people face to face.

I disagree - I think it actually leads to more (admittedly not in the current climate).

When my partner WFH full time, we shopped more locally, because he could take a lunch break and go shop at a few independent businesses. It wasn't a faff or an inconvenience, it was a nice way to break up the day. Sometimes he'd work in a local coffee shop or co-working space. We went to the pub more, because he wanted to go 'out' after WFH all day.

When we both worked full time in the office we were far more likely to do a big tesco shop and collapse on the sofa with a takeaway

On productivity

Interesting point. Though there are pisstakers with presenteeism also. I certainly value a mix of WFH and office time for my productivity.

There are issues with productivity in office too, even if you're busy. On Mondays I typically have 5-8 meetings. The time inbetween is pretty useless to complete most of my other work, which needs dedicated and prolonged stretches of focus that are far easier at home.

There's also hopefully a decline in 'bullshit' tasks. I reduced hours without reducing pay. Productivity remained the same (there are numerous studies that back this). Some concerns were raised about not having time to do x or y task. I asked people to explain to me the value of x or y - they said that they had to do it - no intrinsic value!

(and yes, I'm MN'ing right now - and in the past two years I've saved our company operating costs tens of thousands, won a big contract, and secured long term deals that mean the company is in good stead to meet these difficulties - I'm pulling my weight ;) )

On commuter services

I'd like to see these more dispersed. I'm imagining a rise in use of little local cafes etc over lunches, just in walking distance from people's home. I use my local cafes on my wfh day for lunch.

On international issues

I think good old xenophobia will help a little bit with that, and the sheer fact that it will still be most effective to work with people with an excellent, native grasp of English in many cases.

However, I can also see upsides - being able to recruit talent from areas other than just those local to me in the UK would be handy.

@bingoitsadingo I guess it depends on your job, and what you view as social interaction. Seeing strangers in a cafe for me is different to working alongside people, getting to know them (or at least some of them), and liaising with all sorts of people in meetings.

Why are local cafes better than cafes near your workplace? Why are local pubs better than pubs near your workplace? Why are they more deserving of custom and money?

I don't understand that point.

I'm also not sure that cafes are keen on providing free office space essentially.

I don’t get the ‘only buy British and holiday in Britain’ thing.

I’m going to fuck off on holiday as soon as I can and get some actual sunlight

Soon as I safely can I mean to say.

This is an extrovert v introvert thing essentially isn't it.

It's true that the current working practices favour extroverts.

I think flipping it might have wide ranging social impacts though.

I don’t get the ‘only buy British and holiday in Britain’ thing.
After 1 shit summer I expect a lot will change their mind ... although the travel industry might take a while to recover....

I work for the public sector and we already had WFH anyway (off sick atm, so not Mntting when I should be working).

I absolutely hate WFH. I don't do home stuff in the office, so why would I want to bring work into my home? I don't have room, I've had to go out and buy a desk, there are other people here during the day so we are all in each-other's way, and the biggest issue I have as someone who hates using the phone is constant meetings by phone and Skype. Before I went sick, on my last working day I had spent over 3 hours on the phone; 3 hours when I was unable to get on and do the tasks I am being paid to produce.

I could do my job at work without ever having to use the phone. It isn't a role that requires much collaboration and all of it can be done by email. But even if I'm in the office, the desire of other people to WFH means that I must participate in group Skype.

I think perhaps something we need to be looking at as a society is commuting, and the fact that few people live where they work. This is a relatively recent thing, not helped by Govt departments "rationalising their Estates" and moving thousands of people who lived near their work to central locations, plus a direct result of house prices being unaffordable so that people are having to move further and further out. Local roads are jammed every day with people driving to work, and parking for work. This isn't good for the economy, the environment, the commuters or the people trying to live in commuterland.

I deliberately live 10 minutes walk from work so that I don't have a commute, and actually it's been fantastic over the last couple of weeks that our area has briefly turned back into a residential one, rather than a commuters' car-park.

Perhaps it's time for us as a collective to restrict commuting, and to start looking at where housing is and what it is? We are surrounded by new build estates going up with 3, 4, 5 and 6 beds starting at £400k that nobody local can afford (local pay around £20k). Why aren't builders being directed to build higher density smaller houses, with gardens, priced appropriately to attract local workers instead of people moving from London? Probably a rant for another thread.

I think improving public transport, conditions for cyclists, letting people use those power scooter things and generally getting people out of cars as much as possible would be a genuine positive for everyone.

Why are local cafes better than cafes near your workplace? Why are local pubs better than pubs near your workplace? Why are they more deserving of custom and money?

They're not. But there are vast swathes of this country that are ghost towns during the working week because everyone has gone to their work location, therefore have low custom, or no reason to have such services there because there would be no one to use them. It's a relocation of need, that's all (and coming from a location with some dying and some thriving villages, I can see HUGE benefits in those that have multiple small independent businesses - jobs for local youth, social mixing, thriving independents, positive interaction for elderly people instead of retirement villages...)

The social mixing point is interesting. But again, there's two sides to every coin. There are a variety of people in my local area that I have no time to interact with, and there are plenty of businesses where very little social mixing occurs (there's no one aged under 30 in my company for example, and until recent years, no ethnic minorities).

I don't think there will be a huge shift toward WFH, for all the reasons people are mentioning.

I do think there will be a big drop in business travel, especially long-distance travel. It's expensive and already before this, there was increasing awareness about the environmental impact.

I'm an academic and the annual conference for our discipline this year was in Hawaii. Hawaii! Thousands of people forced to fly thousands of miles, at great cost. It was controversial to begin with and then it was cancelled due to CV. Now there is talk of having several regional conferences instead of one big global one, to reduce travel.

@PoorlyWeasels agree with everything you have said!

Thecats but all the cafes restaurants shops etc elsewhere would close down.

It's just a swap isn't it.

I have made more friends in my life through work than wandering around town tbh. Also just thought, a lot of people find it quite suffocating being in a small town where everybody knows each other. I live in North London and it's bad enough here. Same people round the town. Same people in the pub. There's a reason a lot of young people leave for work in larger towns and cities, it's too get out into the world and meet people etc

I get that some people would love this but, I think the impact could be large in unanticipated ways.

Fully agree

@PoorlyWeasels

I do agree that the housing situation is ridiculous.

To expand on my previous example about local resources and facilities...

I come from a remote rural place near a medium sized village with absolutely fabulous businesses. Three pub/restaurants in a population of 3000, a cute retail/business park, cafes, antiques shops, crafts, GP and dentist, multiple generations living in the same village, a thriving but small village school, lots of events, lots of work for young teens. Some more expensive houses, but a lot of affordable ones.

I visited my friend's newbuild the other week - just streets and streets of houses crammed together, commuting distance to the city, and a gigantic Asda. No GP, no corner shops, no communal village space. Can't see how older people could move there, or why they would.

Third example - any 'retirement' village where older people have moved there, and younger people either can't afford to, and there's not great incentives for businesses to operate from there either.

It doesn't take a genius to see which one is best for all of the difficulties mentioned in this thread.

Thecats but all the cafes restaurants shops etc elsewhere would close down.

Well, in my case, I'm commuting to one bit of a suburb to do work that could be done in another suburb - and doubtless there are lots of people commuting out of the suburb where I work to work in some other suburb too.

So to an extent, there would be some evening out.