To worry about democracy in these times

[Rainbowb]

We have all willingly given over to fear and surrendered our freedom over to state control. I do worry about how this will pan out. This virus is not going to disappear quickly, the government can’t indefinitely keep us in lockdown without serious consequences and giving us our freedom back could result in a second wave. So surely the only alternative is greater levels of surveillance by the state to restrict the movements of those it deems to have the illness or be at an increased risk. My worry is that this “cure” may prove to be worse for us all than the illness.

And your alternative suggestion is...?

YANBU at all

Someone - I am merely concerned that temporary powers may become permanent and we are sleep walking into giving up our democracy and accepting a prolonged “crisis” state.

I am too, but I don't know what the alternative is currently 😕. However, moment this crisis is over (which I know could be some months) any extra powers they've 'temporarily' given the police need to be rescinded.

Who decided when it’s over though? Look at us - we are all terrified of being anywhere near each other and it’s taken a matter of days for that to happen. How are we going to find the unity and power to demand that powers are rescinded and freedom is returned?

Yanbu at all. Part of me does wonder whether all the measures currently in place are actually needed, or whether the pandemic has just been a good excuse to see how much control governments can enforce before we rebel.
For example, we've known for years that a climate disaster is on it's way but it's been clear for some time we, as a society, will never take the necessary steps to mitigate it. Imagine if governments tried to ban flights/holidays etc as part of a climate measure. There'd be outrage and protests immediately but tell us we need to stop because there's a virus and hey presto everyone does as they're told and we start to get used to the idea of a more totalitarian government running our lives so the next time there's less objection.
I mean were just over a week into a government advised (not law) lockdown and already we've got dozens of threads from people just itching to report their neighbours.

I think that we really have no idea what the future is going to look like. What we have got going for us - is our democracy is quite well established.

I don't know...I don't think you are unreasonable for thinking about it. I just don't have an imagination for what it is going to look like.

Look at us - we are all terrified of being anywhere near each other and it’s taken a matter of days for that to happen.

Not all, far from it. I know of one person out of many that are terrified and that's it. The majority I know are just getting on with things the best they can and are pissed right off. Me included.

More important I think, is this highlights why a protracted election process for Labour leadership is sheer stupidity.

We’ve been without an effective opposition for months.

We’ve been without an effective opposition for months.

Years more like.

No Phil we are ALL fearful. We are all avoiding each other because we are frightened of getting a virus or getting arrested.

“ Look at us - we are all terrified of being anywhere near each other and it’s taken a matter of days for that to happen.”

The hysteria is definitely spreading. I understand the irritation but some of seem to think they’d never die young or whatever. I guess they were optimists!

A global pandemic can hardly be considered a surprise IMHO. But apparently some people really thought it would never happen and are willing to fling all rights out of the window in case they or loved ones die.

I’m definitely finding those of us who’ve been through a lot of shit already,and have health problems, are the calmest.

YANBU.

I think it's almost certain that at least some of the "emergency" powers will become permanent.

YANBU. Shows how easily and quickly governments can take control.

mobile.twitter.com/AdamWagner1

^^ human rights lawyer. His Twitter feed is concerning yet interesting

We had a general election in December. The resulting government has used existing legal powers to respond to the pandemic, and also obtained further powers by passing legislation through both Houses of Parliament in the traditional, constitutional manner.

When exactly was democracy suspended?

Yanbu. It's like 1984. How quickly they can control the public, even asking the public to inform on their neighbours rule breaches. I am astonished there hasnt been more objection. I believe the virus is genuine, but it also shows how easily the public can be controlled.

@Rainbowb

No Phil we are ALL fearful. We are all avoiding each other because we are frightened of getting a virus or getting arrested.

Well, thanks for telling me what I am. I can safely say I am not fearful of this virus, if I get it, bad luck and I'm supposedly high risk.

I'm certainly not frightened of getting arrested, because I won't be and not about catching it.

I am astonished there hasnt been more objection.

I don't think it'll be too long before there is.

Yes, I remember the part in 1984 where Winston was told to stay the fuck home by a democratically-elected government in order to save thousands of his fellow-citizens’ lives in a pandemic, but he felt he was too much of a special snowflake to obey such rules so he just moaned about it on social media...

Wait, are you sure you actually read that book?

There’s a time to join Amnesty and protest and a time to shut up and listen. When people are dying from a pandemic, I’d go for shut up and listen. If we’re all alive in 6 months and death rates have dropped then we can talk placard design.

Do you think all governments are in this together

Are you aware that a third of the worlds population was on some form on lock down this week governments around the world have done this to protect lives and so that their healthcare systems can provide as much care as possible and less people suffer and die

And this is all down to what Boris and co having that much power

We still have MP’s that we the public voted for the majority won seats we still have the HOL

Boris can’t even keep his hair and his penis under control. I don’t think he’s looking to start a police state.

sigh

Every time we have an election, we as a country, hand over the power to potentially do this.

The laws are finite. They need to be re-approved by parliament after a specific time. We still have independent courts. The monarch still has a role which can frustrate dictatorships and totalitarian ideas. We are still bound to international treaties and the rules of NATO and the UN.

This kind of shit is deceptive and opportunistic scaremongering for political purposes. I bet half of the people whining about it didn’t turn a hair when the speaker and parliament genuinely attempted a real coup by seizing the powers of the executive, or when the Supreme Court signalled it’s moves to become partisan.

And let’s forget that John McDonnell and Corbyn said they were going to introduce retrospective laws for things which weren’t illegal at the time to persecute their political opponents.

Even for Mumnet, this is pretty fucking unhinged.