To worry about democracy in these times

[Rainbowb]

We have all willingly given over to fear and surrendered our freedom over to state control. I do worry about how this will pan out. This virus is not going to disappear quickly, the government can’t indefinitely keep us in lockdown without serious consequences and giving us our freedom back could result in a second wave. So surely the only alternative is greater levels of surveillance by the state to restrict the movements of those it deems to have the illness or be at an increased risk. My worry is that this “cure” may prove to be worse for us all than the illness.

I just finished reading 1984 while in my 14 day lockdown. I don't think this is anything like it except for the reporting neighbours part. I just became more wary of my Alexa and phone listening us all the time.

’the speaker and parliament genuinely attempted a real coup by seizing the powers of the executive, or when the Supreme Court signalled it’s moves to become partisan.’

Silver linings. Six weeks ago that bullshit would have really aggravated me. Now it’s become light relief.

Amylox - your comments are rather patronising, I don’t think many of us would agree that “unhinged even for mumsnet” is an intelligent point. I am merely highlighting the fact that the police currently have powers over our freedom of movement and that the situation could carry on indefinitely. If we are going to hand over our freedoms for whatever reason, we must always be sure to bloody well get them back.

I just became more wary of my Alexa and phone listening us all the time.

Just don't ask Alexa to translate Boris Johnson carrots 100 to welsh then. If what I have seen is true, you could get a knock on the door

Right now, I’m more concerned about getting an Ocado slot. Come back to me in November.

i'm observing social distancing because it's expected of me, i have little doubt it's highly unlikely i will catch it.

No. It is. Mumsnet is notoriously unhinged.

If you want to get serious about this, please describe the legal and judicial processes that would sweep away our current processes and be used to turn us in to a totalitarian state. You can’t, because it’s almost impossible and you don’t know enough about the processes involved.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Even a bit as small as yours.

We have never been a police state

We have a Tory government at the moment and regardless if you approve of them or not Conservative values are centred around individuals having power not the state having power

Now if Corbyn was PM at this point in time (and thank fuck he isn’t) I could possibly understand that some would be concerned

The laws have been put in place as we are under extreme measures and some people are stupid

Or shall we go as far as saying what we are seeing fake news on an international scale

Oh dear Amylox you have missed my point entirely again!

Politicians want to be popular with the electorate so Cummings will be planning the most public and celebratory way of marking the end of the whole crisis so that images of the celebrations go into the history books.

Cummings will be planning the most public and celebratory way of marking the end of the whole crisis so that images of the celebrations go into the history books.

He hasn't got time, he hasn't stopped running since Friday.

I think YABU, I can understand your concerns but this is litterally the last thing global leaders need or want, it's costing billions and billions. UK government are introducing lockdown much later in the stage of the pandemic than some countries. Thousands of people in Italy died because the public did not take recommendation seriously therefore lockdown is needed, the numbers in UK are obviously much higher than reported since they are only testing people who are hospitalized. Therefore I'd be more concerned about why they didn't do it sooner.

Cherry “ even asking the public to inform on their neighbours rule breaches”

Someone on another thread said this might be to stop the public using the main police number and the majority of reports would be ignored. I do hope so.

Glen Yeadon: The Nazi Hydra in America

Everyone needs to read this book. We are in some serious trouble.

I’m still ploughing through The Mirror and The Light but thanks for the recommendation.

Itsjustme - I’m not suggesting the government are enjoying this or becoming power crazy. Their motivation is obviously to protect. I am just asking the question of how long our freedoms will need to be taken from us to keep us safe and what will be the toll on us all. I genuinely can’t see any alternative but the state having long term surveillance powers to restrict the movements of people whom may have it or be at a greater risk. I can’t see us going back to normal in a few weeks.

Phew. This thread is a lot more reasoned than the other one ongoing at the moment, where the OP suggested that her mental health was affected by the removal of her rights and concerns about this. She just got attached by a bunch of folk who seemed to think that our rights were still perfectly intact and accused her of not understanding that people would die, and being selfish for even voicing a concern.
Vicious and deluded, even for mumsnet

*attacked not attached.

Phew indeed.

The thing that is so worrying about this is that there is no political penalty for overreacting to Corona.

The public is delighted to trade a lockdown for some vague higher purpose of 'saving lives'. There is a complete absence of analysis.

greytmind

I think that's because on the other thread the OPs title wasn't really what she wanted to discuss which if it had it would have been a more objective discussion.

Hi op. yanbu, but a similar thread yesterday turned fairly quickly into a pile on, so don your hard hat!

Of course these are unprecedented times. Of course we all have to stick together for the common good. Of course these measures are temporary. NONE of those mean that you must suspend critical thinking. Political pointscoring would be petty, but there is a difference between that and holding the govt to account.

The press is not doing its job, either. There has been zero interrogation about the NHS's capacity, they're working in lockstep maintain a picture of an NHS 'on the brink'. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't - we have absolutely no idea.

A nurse was on Andrew Marr yesterday saying that London was 'still fine' but this sort of thing is not really picked up.

The Telegraph has run a hideously irresponsible piece on ventilator rationing in London today, saying it's 'already happening', but buried in the article it says London is still coping, this is rather based on the emerging picture of an elderly person's prospects of surviving once they are ventilated.

Also, characterising a 'death toll' as ''surging' is irresponsible in the highest order - reporting this health crisis with zero context. I think the average British person thinks that very few people die on an average day in the UK.

@MarginalGain exactly!! You have hit the nail on the head!

We are told cases are going up every day without any context. Are they testing the same number of people every day? How old are these people? Where do they live? What other factors are there we need to consider? Numbers might jump suddenly because they suddenly start testing thousands more overnight!

I do think we have just been led into a blind panic without enough thought and consideration. Just to 'save lives' of people who would probably have died in six months time anyway.

I'm probably cold about it all. I've spent the last six months watching someone die before their time. It's led me to believe you can't save everyone. Why should the many suffer to save the few?

@MarginalGain bloody good point! In Denmark the press are called the watchdog of democracy, or the 4th power in the separation of powers. Because without their safeguarding we are on a slippery slope.