Fruit and veg to run out if farms don't get pickers

[SudokuQueen]

www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/mar/28/fruit-and-veg-will-run-out-unless-britain-charters-planes-to-fly-in-farm-workers-from-eastern-europe

Why do we actually need to fly people in from other countries when there are a ton of people not working now due to corona killing off their jobs?

Unemployment has gone up by tens of thousands in a week. Just a week. It will only increase.

Food pickers are keyworkers so can go out to do this. Why can't we just get the new unemployed to do this? Yeah it might not be the amount of money you were getting before, but I bet its better than benefits.

One family owning thousands of acres for generations is just wrong

Purple how many acres should one family be allowed to own?

"If this is done by volunteers, business owners (and I include supermarkets in that) shouldn't be allowed to profit from their work."

I don't think the farmers/businesses are suggesting it should be done unpaid - the article linked to refers to the rates of pay. Not that high, but it is paid employment - as seems appropriate, like any other job.

Yes, there may be problems with accommodation and higher cost. But better than not having the fruit/veg picked? As to where the workers come from, students are one possible source - seems unlikely that there will be many bar jobs in April/May for instance.

Love the idea that we could do all our harvesting Monday to Friday with a skeleton staff at weekend.

And a 40 hour working week! I wish!! I'd love to be able to provide that firstly for my staff and then for myself.

However back in the real world where people want to buy broccoli for the same price as they did 8 years ago and the majority of consumers are way more price sensitive than the average mumsnetter.

Minute- how many acres can they farm ?

It’s not about how much they should own / farm . It’s about giving those who farm the land the opportunity to own the land . I disagree with tenant farms . They’re farming the land and paying the landowner for the privilege.
I doubt any one tenant farm consists of thousands of acres . What a silly question !

@LillianGish

Despite it being the dailyfail it does address what our problem is.

I'm hoping that at least some of the newly unemployed can do it. They won't all be able to, but tens of thousands are signing on every week now. A good percentage of them could do this. Will they is another question.

I think it's going to be really hard times ahead. If we don't get that food picked, what does get picked will be rationed. If its not rationed, basically the highest bidder will get it, only those with money will get it. What do those who are unemployed do with their limited benefits a week? Even with 80% of their pay coming in, it will be higher outgoings on food. And if those companies don't survive, what then?

And how are people supposed to get to these jobs in great numbers? Can’t really bus people in when you need them to stay 2 metres apart. And we can’t “ make” anyone take any job nor force employers to take on anyone...Even if you could, what could be the penalty for not doing so and how would we enforce it?

SudokuQueen You really are talking nonsense.What do you have against unemployed people ?

We surely need to pay a decent wage to pickers? If the pay is high enough people will take the job.

The price of the fruit and veg will increase but it's right that this happens if prices do not reflect the labour costs.

The Fulfords?

The UK farming industry relies on lower than national minimum wage labour. There is no way it can afford British workers. Workers would need to be conscripted from prisons or people would need to work ‘community service’ in farms.

That sounds familiar Cattenberg ! An absolute joke of a family.
Farming would be more viable if the farmers owned their own land instead of handing over huge rents ( to absolute wastes of spaces who were handed 1000s of acres of land during the crusades etc ) . The money they spend on rent could go toward paying fair wages.

The UK farming industry relies on lower than national minimum wage labour.

• which is illegal. It is sweatshop work, albeit out in the open on a farm. Think about that next time you pick up your supermarket vegetables.

We surely need to pay a decent wage to pickers? If the pay is high enough people will take the job

This has been shown to be untrue for at least the last 100 years. Even if pay were to double or triple, people would rather work in other industries where there is job security and all-year work. And consumers won't pay the higher prices that this would entail - if British potatoes were to double in price, British consumers would buy potatoes from Egypt or wherever they could be sourced cheaper.

Then there is still the issue of location. The vast numbers of people required are not located in the rural areas where the crops grow. Therefore the industry is reliant on a migratory workforce that is willing and able to move to where the crops are on a daily or weekly basis. Few people are willing to do this other than those for whom even this is better than what they can earn elsewhere - hence the number of temporary workers from Eastern Europe and Portugal who are largely young, single, have no family/childcare issues and who consider that working for £80 a day in a muddy field in England is better than being jobless.

"Even if pay were to double or triple, people would rather work in other industries where there is job security and all-year work."

Though this year that other work may not be available. Though I do see that you have to be able to travel!

You'd have to more than triple the wage. Working 12 hours for £35 is common for picking jobs.

@SudokuQueen not a dailyfail fan, but thought it gave an honest assessment. It's hard work, minimum wage and for the vast majority of workers (those who don't live near enough to be there for a potentially 4am start) and involves living on site in very basic accommodation. A lot of people (quite reasonably imo) would not want to live away from their families in these conditions to do this work. Applying for a job in your local Tesco/Sainsburies whatever with an option of part-time hours is one thing, going to live in a caravan with load of strangers on the other side of the country for the season is a bit different. This would have been a problem post-Brexit anyway - Covid has just fast-forwarded the problem.

I’m so glad we’ve sorted this all out . The fruit and veg will rot in the fields then . Excellent ! Time to grow your own .

@MrsGrindah

Where am I showing I have a problem with the unemployed? I am worried about how they are going to afford food, if they are going to still have jobs after this, if they are going to have homes.

But there is no denying that unemployment is going up rapidly because of corona. Because we cannot get Eastern Europeans over to do the food picking, I'm suggested that those who can out of the unemployed do it, so that we still at least have food. What are the unemployed going to do if food sources are limited, prices go up and they can't afford food? Food banks are struggling, that pressure will only increase.

Sudoku - it’s ok . The unemployed will simply wait for their benefits . I think that’s what the pp wants to happen . Why would you work if you don’t have to?

@Purpletigers

I think it's more a lack of understanding how this is going to affect us all financially. Said this for ages on other threads, but corona is unlikely to be the main killer this year.

If businesses do go under, then that's many thousands unemployed. Will the tourism industry recover for example? Yeah they are being given money by the government, but that doesn't mean people will spend money on holidays after this. That's just one example, but there's thousands of jobs at stake. We've all seen news reports over the last few years of businesses collapsing, but we haven't seen it on a big scale like this could be.

If you have no job, you only have benefits. Once the company goes, so does the 80% pay. How do you then afford a mortgage or rent? How do you afford food and utilities on top of that?

People will get into debt by taking mortgage holidays, council tax holidays, holidays from loans etc. It all adds up. Even if they then get a job again, they have all of that extra to pay back. Dunno how quickly the councils want their tax paid back.

Hopefully nothing bad will happen and it will all go back to normal. But I worry its going to end badly for many.

There's always so much 'what about this' and 'what about that' and 'what if this' and what if that'.

Instead of asking those questions, why not think about what could be done to improve those conditions and ask yourself what YOUR contribution will be in keeping you and your family alive??

Well calling them “ the unemployed “ as if they are a characterless mass for a start. And you seem to be convinced that they alone are the answer . And you talk about “getting” them to do this which implies you think they should be forced somehow. So that’s where I’m getting it from.

What do you suggest Mrs grinah-do you want the people who are already working to work on farms too ? Who else is there to work only those who don’t currently work ?

If the Corona crisis continues beyond Whitsun the solution will be just as it was in WW2 - when the food starts to run out, people will be conscripted to work in the fields and greenhouses, and in the packing and processing factories.

The original post was 'Fruit and veg to run out if farms don't get pickers'

This will not just be a problem in the UK, but also throughout Europe. The migrant seasonal workers will also be unable to harvest crops in the Netherlands and Germany, and the Spanish and Italian farms are already severely hit by the lock-downs there, so the supply of fruit and vegetables to the UK from Europe is also going to be compromised.

Add in logistics problems (far fewer flights and ferries, lorry drivers and warehouse workers becoming ill or leaving the UK - many of these are also from Eastern Europe) and the shops may well run out of fresh produce this summer.