To not feel sorry for my sister?

[GlummyMcGlummerson]

My sister has been self employed in a beauty role for 4 years, and I'd say about a third of her (more expensive) work has been passed by the books in order to avoid taxes - "everyone does it", apparently.

When lockdown was announced she obviously stopped trading and moaned how the government did nothing for self employed workers. Until the 80% funding was announced - but because she declared so little on profits she'll be getting hardly anything. She tried to claim UC but her DH is on £40k a year and is continuing to work from home so is entitled to nothing. We live in the NW and they have very outgoings so I think compared to others they're very lucky to still have £40k pa coming in, and a mortgage break.

I fell out with her today because I've been given furlough, and whilst many would love to have paid time off a 20% wage cut is huge for me with 2 kids and one income coming in - and she said "at least you're getting something it could be worse it could be me". I went off at her and said she has her DH's income and maybe this is karma for fiddling her books.

I don't want to fall out with her, if the last few weeks have taught us anything it's that life is too short for that but it really pisses me off that she thinks she is so hard done by in this.

I bet a lot of the deadbeat dads who decided to be self employed or work cash in hand to avoid paying child maintenance are also kicking themselves now.

That cheers me up.

I am self-employed via a personal service company

I will get nothing because I have been operating for a year and even if I had I think they have carved out people working via personal service companies

Did you have a payroll scheme set up with HMRC and were you paying employer’s and employee’s NI? As a director you are an office holder and should be paying NI. You can still take a mixture of salary and dividends but you absolutely should have been on your company’s payroll paying yourself at least minimum wage.

If so, if you were employed on 28 February, your company qualifies for the 80% furlough grant. It doesn’t matter how long your company has been operating. If you were employed on a registered payroll scheme, you qualify.

If you remunerated yourself entirely by dividend then you have been avoiding NI. You must see that you can’t expect support in those circumstances? UC is your safety net.

Could we please give it a rest with bashing limited companies

Totally agree, I don't see any reason to get arsey with people paying corporation tax, personal tax and PAYE.

My son is self employed. He's always been honest and declared all income. He has lost all his work as a result of this crisis and he is not eligible for help because his girlfriend has a lot of savings. They aren't married, but he's being treated as though he can just live off her. It makes me really angry.

NRTFT

As a freelancer who declares all income diligently I find it hard to have sympathy, too.
Same with ppl using the tax dodging vehicle of paying themselves mostly in dividends. Those are tax contributions that would be sorely needed now, I really don't see why taxpayers would be expected to fill the gap they created themselves.

Sorry for bad grammar in last sentece above. "They" being tax dodgers, obvs.

I agree OP. People cant expect to get help from the taxpayer if they dont pay their taxes. In fact I think taxes in general should be higher and self employed should oay at the same rate as employed.

@RosesandIris Why is he not eligible for the 80% self employed payment?

You reap what you sow

Tough shit on her-already a thread about an ex thats is moaning about not getting anything because hes paid so little tax

reap what yu sow

@Nonnymum Ok, so will the self employed also get 28 paid days holiday and sick pay? Who will be paying for this? Also does that mean we work the same set hours as employed people?

spooky pussycat

Totally her own fault. And they have 40k coming in, they aren't going anywhere, they don't need more.

We actually refused to use a builder recently who would only take cash because it was obvious he was fiddling the books. No sympathy for your sister @GlummyMcGlummerson Us honest people pay our taxes (and if you’re like me still work from home). Why should these cheats benefit now?

userxx
That won't be paid until June, he has to live until then. 80 percent of his income isn't enough to pay his bills and living costs either.

I used to earn alot as sel employed but had dd so hardly made anything but paid for my insurance etc. Everyone done on tax return. Dd older so my books are full now but had to cancel all. What will be will be. Finally was getting back to work. I like alot of mums who self employed and taken career break fall through gap, we lived on savings during gap and dh limited salary. Im hoping my tax paid three years ago show how much i used to pay. Just bad timing. If next year id look better paid. Saying that dh had cv and lucky to survive so vv lucky. Prefer that any day. I can feed us on £30 for week, done it before can do it again, needs must. Mn laugh at this but not sofa surfed like we have.

userxx the paid holiday is not relevent because employers not the Government fund that. Stautory sick pay is different because that is Government funded so yes if self employed people pay full tax I see no reason why they shouldnt also be eligible to apply for stautory sick pay,

I have to admit this has been one of my few consolations, that all the tax dodgers are getting nicely burnt. I don't usually delight in someone's misfortune, but really they brought it on themselves.

Enough chickens coming home to roost to feed the nation,

All those fathers who ducked out of CSA and a fair divorce settlement, too.

Karma is a b*tch

Tax evasion (ie not declaring income) is illegal.

Tax avoidance is not. However, expecting your dividends to be paid over this time is not acceptable (and I fall in that category). I minimised my tax legally and now I'm not being bailed out. Fair enough

I have 2 family members who will be hopefully regretting their decision to hide cash income and fiddle their books to a laughable extent.

Bastards.

@RosesandIris
That won't be paid until June, he has to live until then. 80 percent of his income isn't enough to pay his bills and living costs either.

But he won’t have any expenses, or at least much reduced?

Do I think what your sister has done is wrong? Yes, undoubtedly.
Would I be annoyed at her complaint? Yes
Would I blow up at her and talk about karma, at this time in particular her when I’m not even seeing her? No chance

@Iamthewombat unless there has been further guidance I don’t think a director of a PSC can furlough themselves. Even if, as I have they had paid NI and run payroll etc through HMRC. If you are furloughed you can’t carry out any work, as a director you have a legal responsibility to discharge your duties. The two don’t fit. In addition if you make the decision to furlough you can’t carry on seeking work or generating leads.

If you know something different that would be great!!