To question the "partners only in active labour" current NHS policy?

[RainMinusBow]

Define "active labour." How can this be determined?

H1ghC0r0na yes, I was crying and asking her to stop, and she just kept saying ‘if I stop now I’ll only have to do it again in a minute’ and carrying on. DH was there but a bit shell shocked I think. I eventually screamed ‘get the fuck out of me’ and she stopped, then told me I should have let her continue as she knew best.

Randomness - banning free birth isn't on the agenda. That's a home birth. Nobody can force a woman to labour in the hospital.
However it is correct that the midwives may not be able to make if they are overstretched. That's a choice.
As for the risk - that's a choice. There are risks in having a hospital birth. It's about balancing the risks.
For me it would be my 3rd home births and I am low risk so a free birth is likely to be less risky overall than a hospital birth at this stage. If I'm worried (closer to the birth) I'll look into an independent midwife.

In my second labour, I was treated according to my behaviour. The midwife told me to push, but it just didn't work. After a while, she asked to examine me and I was only 4 cm dilated - I had a cervical lip. So a VE was very useful.

I agree with @Soontobe60 that I cannot imagine a legal challenge claiming an Article 3 breach would get very far. It’s twisting words. “No one shall be subjected to torture or to inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.” Not allowing birthing partners until active labour is neither torture nor inhuman degrading treatment or punishment. There is a highly contagious infection wreaking havoc and it’s a hospital. They are minimising risk. Look at the case law about Art. 3, this would never fly.

OP, I appreciate your concern and it’s so far from ideal but they’re allowing birthing partners, which is at least something. These are unprecedented times.

Not allowing birthing partners until active labour is neither torture nor inhuman degrading treatment or punishment.

My point was contesting the idea that they could make having a vaginal exam compulsory if you want a birth partner, not contesting the idea that they could ban birth partners for all women. And yes, it would be degrading to dangle birth partners in front of women as a reward for spreading their legs.

Be grateful partners are allowed in active labour. In the country where I am no visitors are allowed in, labour, 4cm, 8cm, nothing. My friend is 39 weeks and very scared

*Not allowing birthing partners until active labour is neither torture nor inhuman degrading treatment or punishment.

And yes, it would be degrading to dangle birth partners in front of women as a reward for spreading their legs*

What a ridiculous thing to say. Midwives are trained to follow certain protocols. If they don't, they could be in serious trouble. You're implying that they would get some sort of kick from examining a woman. You've clearly got an issue with midwives. Most of the rest of women who've given birth aren't quite so scathing about the profession.

Can you share this policy with me please?

I have seen the petition - and it says this may happen, not that it is happening now - is it actually written policy now please?

The more people entering the hospital, the more chance of staff becoming infected.

Better more midwives and less partners than the other way round.

I'd be very happy with less people on the wards. Hopefully new mums can get some rest and bond with babies instead of entertaining hoardes of relatives.

I think it's obv your decision. I didn't want VE due to past sexual assault but I accepted that in my case it was safer for the baby. I used gas and air and the staff were fantastic - they kept reminding me I was in control and could tell them to stop, etc. It needed to be done for my inductions (times 4) to check how it was progressing, to break my waters, to put a clip on baby's head, etc.

It's totally your right to devine VEs, but in doing so, obviously that means they can't monitor your progress as much. I don't they'd been your partner from the hospital because if it, especially with how anxious you are.

Going to hospital but having no VEs might be a good compromise for you, and your partner can stand your ground in helping you refuse interventions you don't want, or be very very clear about this in your birth plan.

It's a safer option than freebirthing shudder. It's a safer option than having an independent midwife which you really can't afford (when there should be 2, and I assume you'd still be declining VEs at home).

The ambulance problem remains - you can't guarantee an ambulance with Coronavirus,the midwife wouldn't be allowed to drive you, and your partner might not be able to (and what about the kids).

I get it, I really do. What I didn't mention on the previous thread is that I'm tokophobic (phobia of childbirth). The only way I could imagine giving broth was by section, that was granted, and now j have children. So I really do get the gut wrenching anxiety of a birth that you dont think you can cope with.

Even with my section though, I knew that if I went into labour first and quickly I might have to give birth vaginally, and if I went into ore term labour,the plan was that I'd try to labour, and they'd then make the call on whether I got my c section depending on how badly i was panicking.

I hated the idea of a VE, and although the thought made me feel sick, I knew that in an emergency it might be needed, and I was able to come to a terrified peace over it.

Ultimately though, your safety and the safety of the baby are the most important things, and the safest thing right now, if your trust isn't supporting homebirths is the hospital. There were lots of things I didn't want to do, because they terrified me (bloods etc) but I forced myself through for my unborn child. it's your anxiety that makes you feel like the hospital is dangerous, the reality is it's no more dangerous than going to Asda really

Op you started a similar thread last week about this and got a lot of replies imploring you to reconsider your options given the current circumstances. You’ve been advised to speak to your local maternity unit to get some actual professional advice based off your personal circumstances- which funnily enough, would help in this situation as well as your previous thread.

You’re getting similar types of answers here. By started repeated threads about your upcoming birth you’re either looking for reassurance you’re making the right choice (which you aren’t going to get) or just looking for a bit of drama.

It's interesting to note that some Trusts are still facilitating home births. No correlation with ambulance shortages but more likely to do with how much importance individual Trusts give to homebirths. So basically it's a postcode lottery.

OP it's not a postcode lottery, it depends on the availability of ambulance services to provide rapid transfer if required and the correct number of staff. The RCOG website is very good for information and advice. They clearly state that two midwives are required to attend a home birth and when staffing levels are low, this just isn't possible. A team of midwives can look after more then one woman if in a hospital setting. Some areas of the country are struggling more then others, that will be all that it comes down to unfortunately

@frillseeking Thank you. I get the staffing level bit, hence why I'm employing an IM. But would be interested to know if the Trusts still offering homebirths are suffering from less ambulance shortages that the Trusts in which homebirths have been suspended?

I really don't know and I don't think there would be any way of accessing that information. I think you just have to trust that these decisions wouldn't be being made by any trust unless absolutely necessary. If you enlist the help of an IM, do you stop seeing the NHS midwives? What would the IM do if for any reason you did need to be transferred to a hospital? Interested as to how it works and the protocol

It’s your right to decline a Ve. The midwives will use other parameters to estimate how far along you are. If this means you appear not to yet be in active labour, then your partner won’t be allowed to stay with you. You can’t have it both ways- if you won’t let them do an exam then they can’t know for sure.

Can't help thinking this coronavirus thing has got rather out of hand.

1. If a woman's partner has CV the woman probably has it too so not much point excluding him
2. Probably everyone working in hospital will be exposed anyway
3. CV is not hugely risky for women of childbearing age - giving birth is far riskier. Being born even more so. Having a birth partner present is proven to improve outcomes.
4. Having a birth partner is even more important when they are short staffed - otherwise staff will be needed for some basic care .

It feels like this is a kneejerk reaction rather than one backed up by science!

Just had a thought... how can a partner be there at hospital anyway if other children at home?

Please can someone share the policy on this? All our local hospitals (in London) are saying partner can attend...

It’s always a woman’s right to refuse VEs and no midwife would be in trouble for not performing VEs- hospitals have to follow the basic human legal rights of women obviously!

Of course it’s a personal choice and some women prefer to have VEs throughout labour whilst others choose not to completely.. different pros/cons for different situations.

Anyway, this all aside I think it’s important to see what your own hospital/trust is putting in place. My hospital currently have no restrictions for birth partners at any point and I’m guessing this is also the case with many other hospitals so a lot of women may read this sort of thing and panic over nothing.

Asking for evidence on a range of topics, but think this is covered -

committees.parliament.uk/call-for-evidence/94/unequal-impact-coronavirus-covid19-and-the-impact-on-people-with-protected-characteristics/

@RainMinusBow I've had two friends deliver on the last 5 days and both have had to go alone as their husbands have had to stay at home to look after their children. They're all
Ok but it's very sad for them.

Woman's hour today is well worth listening to, there's a doctor from the Royal College of Midwives discussing concerns and issues the labour and the pandemic

Not a chance I’d risk a home birth right now. Madness 😊