To question the "partners only in active labour" current NHS policy?

[RainMinusBow]

Define "active labour." How can this be determined?

@Walkingtohealth That's great. IM suggested these every 15 mins which I'm of course happy to consent to 😊

From your previous threads you’ve already made your decision. It would be helpful to your positive mindset and others to not keep going over the same things!?

But BrooHaHa rights sometime collide. What about the right of the midwife to work safely? The right of other mothers in the unit to limit the time potentially infected people are in the building? The rules haven’t been invented to upset mothers. They are to balance everyone’s rights.
I’m not sure it’s a right to have your partner with you anyway - it’s lovely, it’s convention, it’s what we expect - but a fundamental right? Not so sure.

Didn’t you start a thread almost identical to this yesterday OP?
Not sure what you’re gaining out of this one

Yes OP, it is lawful. I cannot believe you would even question this. They have literally passed the laws to allow Trusts to make decisions on patient safety which far surpass the norm. We are in an extraordinary situation and whilst I understand it is difficult you really need to suck it up.

If you don’t want a VE, then labour at home until you are confident you are beyond 4cm.

Why even ask since, despite posting about financial trouble in the past, you've suddenly found funds and are having a home birth with an IM? You won't be using the NHS then. You were advised to have a Plan B and IM's have a low bar, necessarily, for hospital transfer.

No wonder so many women are feeling like they have no option but to freebirth. I am in the very fortunate position that we can find funds for an IM if necessary. What about those ladies that can't? So many rights are being taken away here.

No, most women understand why the policy changed and are accepting of it. They realise it's not all about themselves. It's a global pandemic, resources are stretched, and they're putting their health and the health of their babies ahead of irrationality.

@BrooHaHa I agree.

Of course you do.

So if my Trust were to say "VE or no partner" (and this hasn't been clarified), is that lawful?

Yes. You have always the 'right' to stay at home and imperil your health and that of the baby because your prioritise your demands ahead of all else. But no one's going to make an exception for you or anyone else, it's a global pandemic. Continuing to think you can force the system to make an exception for you will not work.

Depending on when you are due to give birth, I also wouldn’t rule out home births being banned due to the significant drain on resources they create (barring exceptional, emergency situations)

It's a difficult situation.
For me ill have a home birth, unassisted if need be. I couldn't have my partner in with me in hospital anyway as he'd be looking after our 3 children at home.
Hopefully we'll be out of this mess by mid-july and I can have midwives assisting me at home...

I'm due in 2 weeks.

I am hopeful I will be able to have dp there but preparing for that not to be the case. In this completely mad, unprecedented, rediculous situation, I think people may need to lower their expectations a little. I am high risk, consultant lead and it really sucks but have just had to say 'fuck it' to myself, 'what will be will be'.

I thought home births had already been banned in many places, due to staffing issues and lack of ambulances?

Having a home birth with effectively no/very delayed availability of an ambulance if things go wrong is stupid brave.

The OP has managed to magic up the money and will hire an independent midwife.

The NHS cannot ban homebirth. And they have a duty to assist. But they can explain that they may not have the resources to assist at the time.
I'm not sure it's that straightforward that homebirths are more expensive overall or more resource draining. Yes 2 midwives should be present. But hospital births usually lead to more interventions which in turns uses other resources...

VE allows them to know whether a labour is progressing.

I’m not sure it’s a right to have your partner with you anyway - it’s lovely, it’s convention, it’s what we expect - but a fundamental right? Not so sure.

I'm just talking about the right to refuse a vaginal exam.

www.birthrights.org.uk/factsheets/human-rights-in-maternity-care/#care

'Article 3 of the European Convention prohibits inhuman and degrading treatment. If caregivers fail to provide care which is needed to avoid preventable suffering – such as pain relief – then this could amount to inhuman or degrading treatment.'

I think from this you could argue that refusing to allow a birthing partner unless the patient consents to an invasive intimate exam would be illegal. Refusing to allow them full stop probably not a legal issue, but making it conditional on a vaginal exam may well be. I think the hospital would have to draw up a policy for determining active labour in the event of refusal of a vaginal exam, based on behaviour etc. And then you'd have to get the woman to understand that a birthing partner would only be allowed when in active labour as defined by this policy, accepting that it may be less accurate than a vaginal exam would be.

@oblada and what will you do if something goes wrong and there’s no ambulances?

I didn't have any VEs and the midwives were able to tell when I was in active labour, there are other behaviours etc which indicate this.

I can’t believe some of the replies on this thread. Women not consenting to invasive, intimate examinations does not make them ‘difficult’ or ‘irrational’. Wtf!

Sorry Oblada but they absolutely can ban home-birth. They do have a duty to assist, but that assistance can be them sending an ambulance to collect you and bring you in if that is deemed the safest thing to do. Policy’s and procedures are changing constantly to reflect on impacted staffing levels and Gvt requirements.

Your choice to have a baby at home is a luxury, not a right.

I don't think Anyone is saying that. She can absolutely deny VE.

But a BP is not a right. And she can't stamp her feet and demand that.

The options are VE and Bp. Or Potentially birth with only medical staff.

I'm confused why you'd refuse VE? Do you refuse smear tests too?

The options are VE and Bp. Or Potentially birth with only medical staff.

I really think you'd be on shaky legal ground there- you're essentially denying a woman a support deemed necessary by many global health bodies because she won't let you stick your fingers in her cervix, despite the fact that you can determine the presence of active labour in other ways. I really don't think they'd be able to deny a birthing partner due to vaginal exam refusal.

It hasn't actually said that anywhere though has it? VEs are a useful and quick way for midwives to be able to monitor progression and so when you are in active labour; but if your midwife can't tell using any other means then maybe find a different one because that's worrying.