self-employed help

[houselikeashed]

So if my profit is £51k - I get no help from the government?
Is that right?

We are just over 50k too, but it's between 2 of us, I don't see how it's fair that because our company profits are over 50k we get nothing, but our 2 employees who earn around 24k each will get 80%. I'm glad for them but so scared for our future.

Well they are self employed, so not unemployed. But they will have sacked their staff, stopped paying rates and you won’t be able to get treatment for toothache. You only have to look at the Covid threads with people saying you can’t leave tooth infections for months and the dentist must do something. Well if they have gone bust, they can’t.

And yet before the current crisis, dentist treatment was so easily and readily available.

We’ve currently furloughed 3 staff - maybe you should factor their terminations into your disdain for the profession. They do provide employment in the same way other areas do too.

I've had an email from HMRC with this link explaining it all.

The £200K thing came about where he said that the average profit of those earning over £50K was £200K. Of course that doesn't help those who are nearer the 50 than the 200.

I hope you'll be OK, OP. I could tell when I was listening to the chancellor that there would be lots of people who'd get nothing.

Well it isn’t going to get any MORE available by doing this

@Coffeeisnecessary are you a limited company?

@hollowtalk yes we are

Those with profit over £50k not getting anything is outrageous

There should be a maximum benefit of £2,500 p.m. like the ordinary employed
as it is:

SE profit £49,999 and receive the £2,500 p.m
earn an £1 and receive nothing

Is that really what he means, or was it v badly explained ?

I live in Germany and when we started out lockdown a couple of weeks earlier,
Frau Merkel promised help to the SE and employees in the same speech.

SE is to be based on the last 3 years accounts, but she said even if a newly SE worker had only 3 months accounts, they would work from that.

She said her intention was to ensure that no business or SE person need go under
I doubt if that's possible, but at least the help is there for everyone to try to rebuild afterwards

@coffeeisnecessary
If you are a limited company the self employed scheme will not apply to you. If you take a PAYE salary you can claim as an employee for 80% of your PAYE salary. For each director.

My DH is self employed tradesman and is elegible to receive this. He has a good accountant who has reduced his tax liabilities, legally of course, so he won’t get anywhere near the the amount he has earned over the last three years via this government grant. But I guess we will have to suck it up - our choices at the end of the day with trying to pay as little tax as possible.

Is it that PAYE paid directors of their own limited companies would need to furlough themselves as they are employees of the company, not self-employed, and their company would apply for 80% of their salary.

Presumably those earning more than £50k are looking into the cash grants and fee free loans available?

The cash grants require an eligible business premises so rules out those who wfh.

Getting a loan approved is far from straightforward or guaranteed. We've just managed to get an overdraft approved - it's taken days of long phone calls, detailed cashflow projections, years of books etc. Our application for the actual coronavirus business interruption loan hasn't even begun to be processed despite being submitted within an hour of the applications going live on Monday.

I don't think the government had a clue about the various different ways someone can be self-employed until the last few days. It's clear they didn't just need more time to work it all out, they actually thought they'd had it covered when they gave the original speech offering Universal Credit last week. I think they've now gone with the biggest voice which has been the various trade lobbies who've contacted them over the last few days suggesting using the mortgage formula (last three year's accounts) as the way forward. But unlike a mortgage company who might take recent accounts or your overall position into account they've just ticked that box and then shut the file, excluding higher earners for fear of the accountants of the very wealthy automatically putting in claims on behalf of their clients and mocking the system.

There are a lot of people who have been left out in the cold. Those who have invested heavily in their businesses over the last few years who may have made temporary losses, those who are forced into short term temporary PAYE schemes on each project they work on and are actually employed by no one and have no self employment income to show, those who like the OP have filed profits over £50k (but it's between 2 people, 2 people running a business together, very different from 1 person taking home that amount), those who've become self-employed in the last year or so, who haven't been required to file yet through no fault of their own. I'm so sorry you're in this position OP, the £50k cap seems ridiculous and very short sighted of them in comparison to the PAYE package. Hopefully they may still change the rules, like they said it will take months to set this up so there's still time for change. And there's no immediate help for anyone. Big hugs xxx

Self employed, been declaring (honestly, as my business is all about online payments) around £30-35k a year for the last three years. I would have had savings to cover me for two years of this so fail to sympathise tbh.

I think you're bang on there Snorkelface. I don't think they've really understood this sector at all.

Another thread has been started about this aspect and how now all those absent fathers who fiddle their tax returns so the CMS keeps their payments low.... are now affected.... l do feel that is Karma.

Not fair on all the honest workers though. Really hope you all get through this

Company directors are not self employed. They are employed by the company. They are usually paid in a combination of PAYE and dividends. Each company director sets their own amount of PAYE and dividends.

The government will pay 80% of your PAYE amount.

For some that will be great. For some who paid themselves mostly in dividends it will not.

But company directors do not apply through the self employed scheme.

OK thank you for explaining this for me, you guys are much better than my accountant!!

Self employed in 2015-2016 2016-2017 2017-2018 2018-2019 went on books for a firm..... 2019-2020 back self employed... where would I stand?? Screwed because I went bk on books for 2018-2019 tax year? Currently out of self employment work due to covid. All our sites closed down for at least 1month last week. I'm a plumber by trade.

@TPR93 use the average of figures from previous 2 years?

I don't think the government had a clue about the various different ways someone can be self-employed until the last few days.

^This - see also HMRC who despite demanding stacks of data from us don't have much clue either.

TPR93 - submitting for 18-19 is key, I know you said you went on the books then but is there anything you can submit now for that year as a late filing? They're accepting late filing as long as it's in straight away.